PIDS - How Many is Too Many

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  • Tech_A
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 115

    PIDS - How Many is Too Many

    Hi All,

    I just wanted to get a general consensus of how many PID's on screen are actually viable? I find trying to monitor anything more than 8 is a bit of a distraction. What are your guy's thoughts?
  • Witsend
    Banned
    • Nov 2012
    • 2942

    #2
    Even Generic OBD2 has too many to sift though some times for a poor multi-tasker. Just give me Vana White on my Screen with the EEC Pin Wheel of Fortune SureTrak most commonly replaced parts.

    Comment

    • diesel71
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2008
      • 921

      #3
      you can never have too much information, to keep it simple use custom data and just pick the ones you want to view.

      Comment

      • Crusty
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2007
        • 2450

        #4
        As said, you can never have too much data.

        Gather it ALL-!!

        Then sort through the pids using SSC where you can review pids, then cull them out once a pid shows no anomalies.
        That leaves the pertinent pids that do have something awry

        Sometimes there are only 1 or 2 pids that are off....sometimes there are 5 or 6 but not often. Rarely are there 8 pids showing anything noteworthy.

        Using SSC lets you cull out the ones you don't need to see anymore, AND it also lets you SORT them so pids that are related are side by side.

        The biggest thing about having too many pids on the same screen of the tool is that they get scrunched up so we don't see the small variances which are our clues.
        THAT isn't a problem on a full size monitor screen using SSC.

        Comment

        • Witsend
          Banned
          • Nov 2012
          • 2942

          #5
          When you record all the Pids, doesn't that slow the sampling rate of the tool down drastically to a point when you play back only 8 or so PIDS at a time in graph mode on SSC of your PC that you might totally miss a drop out, and that playback of a 4 channel scope is way more capable of catching a drop out ?

          Comment

          • Steve6911
            Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 2168

            #6
            I will almost always use the custom data list once I know what system I am working on. Many times I will record it and put it on a PC with SSC. Nothing beats having up to 16 PIDS on a large screen with a cursor to compare PIDS at a given time.

            If you are talking about how many PIDS to view live, it depends on the tool you are using because of the screen size, at least for me.

            Comment

            • Crusty
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2007
              • 2450

              #7
              Originally posted by Steve6911
              I will almost always use the custom data list once I know what system I am working on. Many times I will record it and put it on a PC with SSC. Nothing beats having up to 16 PIDS on a large screen with a cursor to compare PIDS at a given time.

              If you are talking about how many PIDS to view live, it depends on the tool you are using because of the screen size, at least for me.
              You're right Steve, but you nailed it when you said ""once I know what system I am working on.""

              Many of us work on such a variety of vehicles that pid nomenclature isn't intuitive.
              Saving ALL the data initially lets us figure out which pids are relevant. THEN we can go to a custom data list.
              Sometimes something shows up in an unexpected area or pid. That's the advantage of saving it ALL.
              Many times things only show up on a road test and not in the shop. Not advisable to keep your face in the screen while driving..

              The data collection rate (number of frames per second captured) and the number of pids in a given data group, is an ongoing subject of contention.
              Have too many pids, slows the collection rate down, but cull out a pid and you may miss the event entirely.
              In a data group with a lot of pids, it may only capture 3 frames per second. Cull out some pids and it may collect 8 frames per second.
              Fewer frames per second vs more frames per second, balanced against the length of a movie.
              Under some conditions, the machines have saved 16 frames per second but you need to save a movie every minute or two to have a contiguous collection of a road test.
              Yes, 16 frames per second is more likely to capture an event, but if you don't save the movie at the right time, you could miss the event entirely.
              Driving through an intersection with cars darting around in front of you isn't a good time to take your eyes and hands off the steering wheel and the road to save a fast movie...

              I would like the number of frames per second to be selectable, knowing that more frames per second makes for a shorter length of time before the buffer is full.

              Comment

              • Tech_A
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 115

                #8
                Phenomenal feedback, I do agree with recording the data with all PID's, reviewing on ssc and refining the list to a custom list later.

                Overall it seems like it is more important on how to sort and organize the live PID's on screen.

                Solus Pro and Solus Edge lets you customize the list and lock pid's in position, whereas Verus just pumps out a ton of pid's on screen allows list customization but you need to access the data viewer for SSC sorting capabilities.

                Hypothetically lets say your driving a vehicle and you wanna keep it between a 20-25% load, but all you can do is occasionally glance at the passenger seat to make sure you are in that range.

                Would a larger text view be beneficial? Are there other situations where this would be beneficial?

                Comment

                • Steve6911
                  Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 2168

                  #9
                  Yes the larger text would be very beneficial. If I need to watch a PID while road testing I always highlight that PID. If I need to watch more then one I locked them in and highlight the lowest PID I need to watch. If I'm using a smaller tool like the Solus Ultra it can be a bit difficult.

                  Comment

                  • GypsyR
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2017
                    • 287

                    #10
                    I'd like a screen full of four, I think. With fittingly larger text. This would help a lot in drive testing transmissions. Input speed, output speed, vehicle speed, and perhaps a pressure reading. Three would do fine most of the time but a rectangular screen divides so nicely into four.

                    Comment

                    • BMW JEDI
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2012
                      • 422

                      #11
                      I commonly wish my Solus Ultra and Modis Edge had more than 8 PIDS available on the screen. Been wishing for 16 since.... forever ago! Of course, those who only wish to view less PIDS have that option.

                      Comment

                      • Crusty
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 2450

                        #12
                        So we're looking for a "glitch".....something that stands out.....we need to see ALL initially.....
                        Once we zero in on an area of observation, too many pids at one time can lead to "information overload".... and we don't pay attention to what the individual pid is telling us.
                        Again, ShopStream Connect (SSC) is the piece to the puzzle.

                        Many times, we already know which pids we need to look at given the symptom. It's when we DON'T know exactly which area the root cause is in that we need to back out, look at the overview of things, then re-analyse the data collected.

                        Too many pids on the screen during the initial road test isn't going to be seen unless we get lucky. Gather it all.....
                        Then review the data with SSC and THINK it out.....
                        THEN go to a slimmed down pid list which increases the probability that the machine will catch the glitch.

                        There is no "right answer" as to "how many is too many".... The circumstances of what we're presented with dictates that answer.

                        Comment

                        • Witsend
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 2942

                          #13
                          Had a 2000 Explorer I thought I would do a road test and record all of the transmission related Pids because it was missing direct drive 3rd gear and found out the Chinese MaxiCyst is not very strong in this area , and only records what PID selections had displayed on the screen at the time record was selected, but when you open the file to view the file recorded it shows the entire list of pages of Pids you had initially sifted through and then you need to find the PIDs that actually did record.

                          Comment

                          • phill57
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 474

                            #14
                            Missing data pids during playback.

                            Originally posted by Witsend
                            Had a 2000 Explorer I thought I would do a road test and record all of the transmission related Pids because it was missing direct drive 3rd gear and found out the Chinese MaxiCyst is not very strong in this area , and only records what PID selections had displayed on the screen at the time record was selected, but when you open the file to view the file recorded it shows the entire list of pages of Pids you had initially sifted through and then you need to find the PIDs that actually did record.

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVEpWN9001M
                            This issue has been like this on the Sys and as far as i know you cant fix it. There is no playback button and only the pids that you had on the screen get recorded. Its worse if you graph a couple which takes up screen space and makes it worse. The OTC genisys and touch do the same thing.

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