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  • Skip
    Super Moderator
    • Apr 2008
    • 605

    Equipment list

    Often in answering question and giving repair advise we will recommend using a tool like a lab scope only to find out that the tech does not have one. A useful tool would be a list of available equipment that the user would fill out and we could access by clicking on their profile. A simple check the box kind of list. It would improve our answers as we could would give advise to use a tool they do not have.

    Type of scan tool-DMM-Lab scope-Boroscope-Chassis ears-Compression gauge-etc.
  • Wheel
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2007
    • 719

    #2
    Originally posted by Skip
    Often in answering question and giving repair advise we will recommend using a tool like a lab scope only to find out that the tech does not have one. A useful tool would be a list of available equipment that the user would fill out and we could access by clicking on their profile. A simple check the box kind of list. It would improve our answers as we could would give advise to use a tool they do not have.

    Type of scan tool-DMM-Lab scope-Boroscope-Chassis ears-Compression gauge-etc.
    I want to second your suggestion. I have so often wished IATN had something like that. Additionally it helps to know not only what type of tools, but specifically which brand and model , as some tools have some very unique, handy features that can be taken advantage of.
    You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

    Comment

    • maven
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2014
      • 269

      #3
      "Sounds" like a good idea....however even if were implemented I doubt I would bother to check a posters profile to examine their tool inventory before I develop a diagnostic strategy and and hints specifically tailored to their equipment level for them to use for free..... I am a big proponent of not busting out a several thousand dollar oscilloscope or any other piece of kit that many people dont have and fewer know how to use to diagnose. Im a lot more inclined to recommend someone make their own test lamp. Or use a common tool in uncommon way. I honestly cant think of one vehicle in the 500 or so topics Ive helped where I told another tech they had to have a scope to solve an issue.

      Do I own one and use it? Sure...a Modis Ultra and a Fluke 98. I have a sneaking suspicion that a large percentage of the posts on SureTrack are made purely out of a lack of simple understanding of the way a system works and proper service information. To recommend the use of complex specialty diagnostic equipment in these situations would likely do more harm than good. I cant even recall how many times people get told to "scope it" and then they never even acknowledge the recommendation.

      Comment

      • Crusty
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2007
        • 2450

        #4
        Gotta agree with you Maven.
        MOST of the time the problem is in the basics and fundamentals.

        Sometimes, and actually quite often, a fancy schmancy wifi touch screen 37 channel do it ALL wipe your nose tool can actually makes the situation worse, not better.

        Comment

        • Nick_Taylor
          Administrator
          • Jan 2014
          • 381

          #5
          The more and more you recommend more advanced diagnostic tools some techs will figure out that they need to step it up. There are always going to be the people who come here looking for the magic answer. And while it might seem that they didn't do any basic testing, a lot of times I find that they did but they just don't say it in their post.

          All I can ask is that you are patient with these people. Help them along and if it frustrates you too much, just pass their question by. I'm still working on putting together a welcome message for first time users to give them instruction on how to ask a question.
          SureTrack Community Administrator, Diagnostics forum Administrator.

          Comment

          • dlm1
            Junior Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 23

            #6
            Man, you guys are Smart ! No pun intended. Some forums recently have decided to weed out the so called "undesirable". To make the Strong even Stronger perhaps, Not sure of there reasoning, as that does not seem to benefit the Industry or the tool people, that make a living off of US.
            We all are at different "stages" of being a Technician, One Techs weak area is another Tech Strong Area. We are supposed to help each other thru lifes hiway..so to speak.
            Appreciate You Guys.. Knowledge is Important !

            Comment

            • Nick_Taylor
              Administrator
              • Jan 2014
              • 381

              #7
              We don't make people pass a test to join the system but they do need to be working at a repair shop. I continue to remind everyone that for a lot of these techs, this is their first use of a forum or community. Hopefully most existing members can be welcoming and help them get the hang of it.

              Also, since we're now getting members from ProDemand and ShopKey Pro instead of just scan tool users, the population if much more varied as far as qualifications and experience.
              SureTrack Community Administrator, Diagnostics forum Administrator.

              Comment

              • Witsend
                Banned
                • Nov 2012
                • 2942

                #8
                I think a lot of folk asking questions in any forum ARE looking for the magic answer if there is a common pattern concern to go straight to and check something first. Customers don't usually wan't to pay more than a half hour diag time before they are asking , " So What's The Verdict ?" They don't want to hear the answer that it's your $ 6000 tablet based scope and scan tool in all in one that I need another $120 in diagnostic time to scope things out.
                If they feel that Autozone pulled a code for an MAF and they rather chance the $120 toward a new MAF rather than pinout tests seeking a conclusive diagnosis, I'm all for it

                Comment

                • Crusty
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 2450

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Witsend
                  I think a lot of folk asking questions in any forum ARE looking for the magic answer if there is a common pattern concern to go straight to and check something first. Customers don't usually wan't to pay more than a half hour diag time before they are asking , " So What's The Verdict ?" They don't want to hear the answer that it's your $ 6000 tablet based scope and scan tool in all in one that I need another $120 in diagnostic time to scope things out.
                  If they feel that Autozone pulled a code for an MAF and they rather chance the $120 toward a new MAF rather than pinout tests seeking a conclusive diagnosis, I'm all for it
                  Even back in the day of points & condensors and carburetors, TOSSING PARTS has PROVEN to be more costly in the long run time and time again.
                  It is all too common for a post to say this part has been replaced, that part has been replaced, another part has been replaced....and on and on......
                  BIG SIGH........

                  Comment

                  • Witsend
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2012
                    • 2942

                    #10
                    I think Technical Service Bulletins often give a heads up to check certain things that happen to be problem areas of certain cars like a place wires like to short out,. Usually the manufacturer releases a TSB only after a pattern problem causes enough techs head aches, that they finally decide to tell the techs to check something specific first, in order to Save themselves warranty expenses for excessive diagnostic time.Even though it only pays .3hr since the TSB release instead of 1.0hr like it once might have, However It is not a green light to slam parts or do a preventive repair without verifying the problem exists.
                    It takes enough people and techs to say something for it to become a pattern failure concern and a TSB even released let alone a recall on pattern failure, wiring or parts
                    If the customer wants to gamble and thinks a relatively inexpensive part will fix it because it' was the common fix he read on an internet forum and he forgoes the recommended diagnostic time, I don't have a problem with it.
                    Last edited by Witsend; 07-28-2014, 10:02 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Crusty
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 2450

                      #11
                      As for TSB's, YUP, check it out, VERIFY that the specific situation exists, TEST IT, CONFIRM the little details.
                      Just don't automatically assume that the condition exists on that particular vehicle (read the fine print at the bottom of manufacturer TSB's-!!)
                      Those kind of "pattern failures" show up within a couple of years.
                      One guy tried to claim that a vehicle had been running around Quebec City (it's so cold up there they have ICE Carnivals every winter-!!!) for over seven years without the windshield defroster working and a TSB released within the first year of the vehicle's life was the fix..... (sigh)

                      As for gambling on tossing parts because of 'google mechanics" saying this or that part fixed the problem.... far too many times the replaced part is the SYMPTOM....not the ROOT CAUSE.....
                      Six months later the problem arises again..... "damned cheap parts", or "that guy installed it wrong", and those people who choose to gamble tossing parts are the FIRST ONES who forget that they themselves were the ones who decided to shoot the dice.... and somehow it becomes OUR FAULT...
                      "YOU touched it, it isn't fixed, what are you going to do about it....."
                      Do you want to go down that road-?

                      My mentor taught me to "fix it right or don't Fxxx with it" and "go back to basics" because THAT is where the root cause is, and after it's discovered, it's amazing how simple the REAL FIX is.
                      Testing the basics and fundamentals doesn't take Wi-Fi, touch screens, all in one, 37 channel scopes and equipment of that type.

                      Comment

                      • Witsend
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 2942

                        #12
                        Crusty you are absolutely correct . You do have to get to the " Root" cause of any problem before replacing what failed as a"Consequence" I would at least verify both my radiator fans both work and the cam journals aren't wiped out before doing something major like a head gasket job, or look for a dirty shared ground if I had all sorts of electrical maladies with codes , but something like an old Ford coming in with something like a P0401 , I might do a quick check of the DPFE voltage with a scan tool , inspect the pressure hoses, vacuum tubing and ground the EGR vacuum regulator ground side with a test light to verify some EGR flow that affects idle , but chances are I'll give the customer the option to just replace something like a DPFE sensor before I remove a throttle body or plenum to decarbonize passageways.
                        My Mentor equated the 4-stroke engine principle to suck, squeeze , bang , and blow, and that electricity always takes the path of least resistance.
                        Last edited by Witsend; 07-30-2014, 07:57 PM.

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                        • maven
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2014
                          • 269

                          #13
                          NVM, wrong spot.
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