Low amp clamp suggestions......

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  • DougMontgomery
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2007
    • 194

    #16
    Orevin,

    Just a quick observation, not having the vehicles and the setup in front of me. Notice the turn-on current ramp section with the pico between the two and the saturation section (the "flat-top" area where the injector is fully saturated) with both the Verus & Pico.

    It appears that the Snap-On probe s more rounded and delayed. I specifically see the turn-on quicker, less sloped and moreover the flat area is more flat at the saturation area with the AES probe. This could be attributed to capacitance in the Snap-On probe. Maybe Snap-On put a simple 1st order filter in their probe to make it a cleaner signal.

    Comment

    • Rich Shepherd
      Snap-on D&I
      • Nov 2006
      • 553

      #17
      Originally posted by DougMontgomery
      Orevin,

      Just a quick observation, not having the vehicles and the setup in front of me. Notice the turn-on current ramp section with the pico between the two and the saturation section (the "flat-top" area where the injector is fully saturated) with both the Verus & Pico.

      It appears that the Snap-On probe s more rounded and delayed. I specifically see the turn-on quicker, less sloped and moreover the flat area is more flat at the saturation area with the AES probe. This could be attributed to capacitance in the Snap-On probe. Maybe Snap-On put a simple 1st order filter in their probe to make it a cleaner signal.
      Kai,
      What do they look like when you superimpose the 2?
      Is the waveform from the PDI between the pintle movement and turn off always the same shape or does it vary some. I was wondering if the variation that is on the baseline was rolling thru causing the difference in this section between the 2 that is shown in this capture.

      Comment

      • Orevin
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2010
        • 1110

        #18
        Originally posted by Rich Shepherd
        Kai,
        What do they look like when you superimpose the 2?
        Is the waveform from the PDI between the pintle movement and turn off always the same shape or does it vary some. I was wondering if the variation that is on the baseline was rolling thru causing the difference in this section between the 2 that is shown in this capture.
        They don't really vary. Here are three examples:

        20110419-1606-1.jpg

        20110420-0649-1.jpg

        20110420-0649-2.jpg

        20110420-0650-1.jpg

        I've also attached the two scope files, if someone wants to play with them.

        I was thinking, since the PDI has a far longer cable (10 ft, I think), could this be the reason for the extra noise? Might the cable, though shielded, act as an antenna?

        Attached Files
        -Kai-
        Chicago, IL

        Comment

        • jonage
          Member
          • Oct 2010
          • 35

          #19
          man this is turning out to be a really good forum for me. I like tecky sh!t so I have always wanted a lab scope to play with and learn how to use, so I traded in the solus for this verdict. This forum is really helping me understand the waveforms and how to set up the tool. Keep up the good work and advice.
          oh yea and when I got the verdict I also got the ign. lead kit and a single flag. I tried to use the flag for the firs time on a ford truck with cop. I took a stab at setting it up, and I could identify the coil that was not firing. Could someone show me how to use this tool, the flag, the proper way and how to set it up? Thanks all.
          theres no car that i can't break.......

          Comment

          • SnapOnKid
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2011
            • 870

            #20
            Originally posted by jonage
            man this is turning out to be a really good forum for me. I like tecky sh!t so I have always wanted a lab scope to play with and learn how to use, so I traded in the solus for this verdict. This forum is really helping me understand the waveforms and how to set up the tool. Keep up the good work and advice.
            oh yea and when I got the verdict I also got the ign. lead kit and a single flag. I tried to use the flag for the firs time on a ford truck with cop. I took a stab at setting it up, and I could identify the coil that was not firing. Could someone show me how to use this tool, the flag, the proper way and how to set it up? Thanks all.
            Jonage I posted up an officail request for us new guys so we can get poper training on the scope side. Please post up so we can be heard. If you would like to see somthing that I may not have asked for please post up. after all what good are the atachments if we don't know how to use them. http://productforum.autorepairdata.c...2715#post22715

            Comment

            • dseene
              Junior Member
              • Mar 2011
              • 2

              #21
              One more on the low amp clamps

              I teach at a UTI school and I have a box full of broken amp clamps from the other guys. We have been using the Snap-On ones for quite a while now and not one has failed. If durability counts, just get the Snap-On one. Automotive students is a really great way to test tools, if they can survive their abuse, then the tool is as good as gold.

              Comment

              • Crusty
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2007
                • 2450

                #22
                Originally posted by dseene
                I teach at a UTI school and I have a box full of broken amp clamps from the other guys. We have been using the Snap-On ones for quite a while now and not one has failed. If durability counts, just get the Snap-On one. Automotive students is a really great way to test tools, if they can survive their abuse, then the tool is as good as gold.
                Try and set the meter to "0.00" on the low amp clamp reading AND on the min/max at the same time so your measurements will be ACCURATE right from the start.
                I was taught that a "diagnosticians routine" was to FIRST ZERO THE METER.
                Won't do it-!!
                I bought the SnapOn low amps probe SPECIFICALLY to do parasitic draw testing.
                IF and when I can get 0.00 on the meter, the min/max AT BEST shows -24ma and +24ma.......When the ZERO-SET button is pushed, the min goes to minus 900ma, then I reset the min/max settings and the meter goes up over 10ma from what WAS a zero.
                Back and forth, back and forth.
                NEVER get zero on the reading and zero on the min/max together-!!!!
                And I havn't even hooked onto a vehicle yet-!!
                NOT MUCH GOOD when vehicles sleep with as low as 10ma drain......

                Comment

                • crackerclicker
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2008
                  • 400

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Crusty
                  I bought the SnapOn low amps probe SPECIFICALLY to do parasitic draw testing.
                  you're most likely stretching the capability of any regular low amp probe when testing in milliamps. depending on the draw, you'd be better off with one of those expensive milliamp probes. or use the massey method, but i don't see any batt cables that can be coiled for that test .

                  Comment

                  • Crusty
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 2450

                    #24
                    Originally posted by crackerclicker
                    you're most likely stretching the capability of any regular low amp probe when testing in milliamps. depending on the draw, you'd be better off with one of those expensive milliamp probes. or use the massey method, but i don't see any batt cables that can be coiled for that test .
                    I was foolish enough to read and BELIEVE what it said on the box......

                    Resolution.................1ma
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • crackerclicker
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2008
                      • 400

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Crusty
                      I was foolish enough to read and BELIEVE what it said on the box......

                      Resolution.................1ma
                      resolution doesn't mean it is capable of reading 1ma, but i can see where the measure range would give the impression of capability.

                      Comment

                      • Crusty
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 2450

                        #26
                        Originally posted by crackerclicker
                        resolution doesn't mean it is capable of reading 1ma, but i can see where the measure range would give the impression of capability.
                        Yup. With the "measuring range", "Accuracy", and "resolution" specs, it SHOULD be capable of at least giving a STABLE low milliamp reading and be able to set the min/max to what is on the screen.
                        If it would display a STABLE low reading of say, 3 milliamps, and then with that on the screen allow the "reset min/max" button to match the 3 milliamps the probe is picking up, without it instantly jumping to +/- 24ma, (that's a 48ma delta) it would be acceptable, BUT, 48ma is a long way from 1ma.
                        It does fine with currents like fuel pumps but when I asked about low amperage parasitic draws, I was assured it would do it (before I purchased the SnapOn probe to match the SnapOn tool) by the SnapOn Sales Specialist up here.
                        If you turn the machine on and the probe on and zero the probe 16 times, you'll get 16 different values, and you can't "reset min/max" to what the probe is displaying. Sometimes the min/max will immediately jump to -960ma and the probe, which may have had a low ma of say, 4ma jumps to over 10ma.
                        If it would just be STABLE you could work with it.
                        BTW, the batteries don't last 50 hours either....LOL

                        Comment

                        • Crusty
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 2450

                          #27
                          Originally posted by crackerclicker
                          resolution doesn't mean it is capable of reading 1ma, but i can see where the measure range would give the impression of capability.
                          Ya, we're not supposed to use the low amps probe for parasitic draw measurements.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • crackerclicker
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2008
                            • 400

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Crusty
                            Ya, we're not supposed to use the low amps probe for parasitic draw measurements.
                            try using a normal low amp clamp in these instances :





                            this is where a micro amp clamp shines, but it currently seems too expensive for the perceived limited uses.

                            Comment

                            • Crusty
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 2450

                              #29
                              The issue is what SO claims. The capability to measure parasitic drains is referenced in about 7 places depending on how you enter tests (power user, A-Z index, etc). It is in 4 places under A-Z-index. Page 47 of one of the User's Manuals states that the "reset button will reset the min/max to zero" (which it doesn't) and yesterday after repeatedly pushing the zero reset on the probe itself, it stayed at 0.011 amps (11 milliamps) and the min/max values were ANYTHING BUT what was displayed on the peobe reading.
                              It is claimed to be capable of Accurately measuring from 10ma to 40-amps. How is it possible for it to accurately measure 10ma when it won't zero set to 0.000 ?
                              Up here the low amps probe kicked the heck outta almost 400-clams so it isn't "low cost", and it was purchased along with the SnapOn meter rather than possibly having a conflict with another manufacturers probe.
                              The issue is the "claims" vs how good the tools really are. Do they REALLY peform as advertised? Nope.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                              • greasybob
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2008
                                • 1590

                                #30
                                Can the Vantage pro measure amperage inline like the original Vantage can ? Don't know why anyone would want use an amp probe to measure parasistic draw. I did a little experiment last night camparing the two methods using the Verus at different settings compared to my vantage. It's too hard to zero out the low amp probe at a 500mA setting. Put the vantage inline with the negative battery cable and you can shut it off and check it again in an hour or so. Just be careful not to blow the 10 amp fuse or the glass fuse inside (been there).

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