Last original Verus update?

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  • Wheel
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2007
    • 719

    Last original Verus update?

    Anyone from Snap On care to confirm or deny this?
    I confirmed today the 325 updates will end at update 17.2 next year. :( Just so everyone knows.


    I can see their retiring the Modis and older Solus platforms, but to retire the Veruses just a year later? that's pushing it.

    With the Verus platform being pc based, I think they would
    have a hard time justifying ending support for it.

    Even the first Verus has a larger hard drive than the Verus
    edge - so an excuse of hard drive capacity ain't gonna fly

    The Verus pro shares the xp operating system the original
    Verus has, so if they discontinued support due to operating
    system, they'd have to do so on the pro as well - which
    would really make scanner buyers gunshy.
    You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel
  • sbreland73
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1076

    #2
    The 323 is now approaching nine years in age (wow) if I am not mistaken. This is ancient in terms of technology's rapid evolution process. I could understand if the newer software was not able to run on older software (think Windows 10 on an Intel 133MHz processor). I know the latest products from Adobe (Photoshop and some of the other Creative Cloud elements) will for sure not run on Win 98 machines, and hick-up on Win XP.
    S. Breland

    Comment

    • Wheel
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2007
      • 719

      #3
      Originally posted by sbreland73
      The 323 is now approaching nine years in age (wow) if I am not mistaken. This is ancient in terms of technology's rapid evolution process. I could understand if the newer software was not able to run on older software (think Windows 10 on an Intel 133MHz processor). I know the latest products from Adobe (Photoshop and some of the other Creative Cloud elements) will for sure not run on Win 98 machines, and hick-up on Win XP.
      I could see the Modis starting to struggle with newer and newer upgrades, so its
      retirement wasn't really a surprise. But the original Verus can do anything the edge can do (except perhaps run oem vehicle software written for 7) only slower. If one is content to use their Verus as a scantool and scope, then it should perform adequately well into the next decade. But for those who want to use it for everything but its main purpose and stay glued to the internet with it instead of fixing cars - you know the ones who WILL be complaining soon if not already how" slow a piece of ****" the Edge is - nothing is adequate or ever will be.
      The Verus pro isn't that old of a piece of equipment - same operating system, only a little faster- if they continue to support it why can't they continue the support of the older ones? Makes one wonder when support for it will vanish, which in turn makes one wonder how long the Edge will be supported, which will in turn make one seriously question whether he should buy one.
      One can expect and excuse this from OTC, Autel, Launch, etc because they are priced accordingly. One pays more, lots more for a Snap On because more is expected. If they want to make short lived throwaway scanners, they need to make them at a throwaway price.
      You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

      Comment

      • sbreland73
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 1076

        #4
        Originally posted by Wheel
        But the original Verus can do anything the edge can do (except perhaps run oem vehicle software written for 7) only slower.
        Actually in terms of software, this is not accurate, and there have been hardware changes too. For example, the scope in the 323 can't graph ohms, that was added in the Pro. There is more to it than just writing code and soldering hardware. Typically hardware is designed first, then software to run on it. As software evolves, it is written to optimize more modern hardware, and as a result, older hardware usually gets left behind (no longer supported). Obviously one could argue that this may be a marketing ploy, to sell new machines, but incompatibility issues abound in the tech world on this subject daily.
        S. Breland

        Comment

        • Crusty
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 2450

          #5
          Originally posted by sbreland73
          Actually in terms of software, this is not accurate, and there have been hardware changes too. For example, the scope in the 323 can't graph ohms, that was added in the Pro. There is more to it than just writing code and soldering hardware. Typically hardware is designed first, then software to run on it. As software evolves, it is written to optimize more modern hardware, and as a result, older hardware usually gets left behind (no longer supported). Obviously one could argue that this may be a marketing ploy, to sell new machines, but incompatibility issues abound in the tech world on this subject daily.
          I agree with both you and wheel here. As for the machine being able to GRAPH ohms, yes it can. The issue is the nature of making any meter measure ohms. Earlier machines that are not capable of measuring ohms, sure will have trouble graphing something it isn't capable of doing. Graphing, in and of itself isn't the issue.
          As for new technology CAUSING problems, there are thousands of vehicles driven daily with the original software in them. No changes required.
          Sometimes the "new" software thing, and the "new" hardware thing is a crutch for not writing the software appropriately in the first place.
          The 2004 and the 2012 vehicles on the road today sure as heck havn't been given "new" hardware by the manufacturers-!
          Yes, hardware does change, and software does change. There are times when an old fashioned piece of kit outperformes the "new & improved".
          Kit that costs $500 or $1,000, sure, dump it in the lower drawer. Keep it for the older vehicle that pops in now and then. Kit that costs $10,000 should be just as functional 25 years from now as it is today for the vehicles it was capable of in the first place.
          Updates (corrections) should be continued because it may not have been correct in the first place. Once the software IS correct, perhaps 5 years after the last piece of kit is sold, might be an appropriate time to stop making "corrections" (the software SHOULD have been correct right off the hop but I only expect the impossible, not miracles)
          If one wants to connect to a 2016, or a 2017, or a 2018 vehicle in the next few years, new hardware (along with accurate & complete software) would obviously required.
          Quite often it is merely "convenient" to claim that hardware is no longer capable. I still use 20 and 30 year old kit almost every day. Yes that is for fundamental tests & measurements, but a volt is the same now as it was back in 1938. When was Ohm's Law written-?

          Comment

          • Wheel
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2007
            • 719

            #6
            Originally posted by sbreland73
            Actually in terms of software, this is not accurate, and there have been hardware changes too. For example, the scope in the 323 can't graph ohms, that was added in the Pro. There is more to it than just writing code and soldering hardware. Typically hardware is designed first, then software to run on it. As software evolves, it is written to optimize more modern hardware, and as a result, older hardware usually gets left behind (no longer supported). Obviously one could argue that this may be a marketing ploy, to sell new machines, but incompatibility issues abound in the tech world on this subject daily.
            The Verus pro and edge would not be able to graph ohms even today had enough people not thrown a fit about its absence.
            The only reason the original Verus can't graph ohms is because the bean counters don't want it to. If it can measure ohms (which it can),then it is just a matter of plotting it over time onscreen, which software can do. I am just as sure software can be written to purposely exclude this unit from being able to graph ohms as well, as is obviously the case here. Windows is a very adaptable system and it and the machine it is on should be well capable of supporting updates for years to come - unless the newer software is PURPOSELY written to exclude the older machines, and it doesn't have to be.
            Yes, I will be one of those who argues that this is CLEARLY a marketing ploy
            to sell new machines, because this is obviously what is happening. This may backfire on them if they are not very careful.
            The older stuff needs to be supported until the hardware has reached its limitations for its basic functions. We could clearly see this with the brick
            as it slowed to a crawl and even the Modis and first two Soluses as they got slower and slower. Snap On did a really nice job of keeping these going as long as they did, which helps inspire confidence in buyers that they won't be left holding the bag when they shell out for one of the priciest if not the priciest aftermarket scanners out there. Part of the value we see when we make that tough decision to spend more money with Snap On when we could have bought something else which probably would have worked is the hopes that Snap On would have our backs and support us and our purchase for years to come instead of stabbing us in the back.

            Before I heard this. I was recommending the shop I work at buy some type of Verus to supplement our old Modis and other scanners, but if this is truth and not just rumor, then I would honestly be afraid to recommend they purchase ANY Snap On diagnostic products. I'll wait and see if this is so or not before recommending one way or another. I'll take silence as a confirmation that this is true.
            Last edited by Wheel; 11-01-2016, 10:30 AM.
            You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

            Comment

            • Wheel
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2007
              • 719

              #7
              Originally posted by Crusty
              Quite often it is merely "convenient" to claim that hardware is no longer capable. I still use 20 and 30 year old kit almost every day. Yes that is for fundamental tests & measurements, but a volt is the same now as it was back in 1938. When was Ohm's Law written-?
              I think you nailed it here. One could see the older platforms struggling for years with the new software and their retirement was seen as expected and unfortunately necessary, and Snap On deserves credit for allowing them to be supported as long as possible. I have seen or heard of no such struggles on any of the Windows xp based platforms Snap On has and it would be
              "convenient" if they claimed them no longer capable - convenient for them,
              that is, until people started getting gunshy about investing their money in a tool that they have reason to believe is not going to be around very long.
              You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

              Comment

              • sbreland73
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 1076

                #8
                Something you guys are not taking into account is there is ONE major difference in the Verus and older MT2500, Modis, Solus platforms..........MICROSOFT. With this being a factor, there are things beyond the control of Snap-on. Sure, they could run a flavor of Unix, Linux, or some other third party software, but there would be even more compatibility issues. I still have to disagree about the first Verus scope graphing ohms, there is VERY obvious hardware limitations in that scope if you open it up and do some tinker testing (and I have), so it's more than lines of code (I do that too). So even if it is a marketing ploy, so what, that's free enterprise and ALL brands do it. If car makers made cars to only break after 200k, we would not be needed. Don't get me wrong fellas, I HEAR you, and I understand the frustrations (I owned the 323, then traded up to the Pro), and also have access to an Edge.
                S. Breland

                Comment

                • Crusty
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 2450

                  #9
                  Originally posted by sbreland73
                  Something you guys are not taking into account is there is ONE major difference in the Verus and older MT2500, Modis, Solus platforms..........MICROSOFT. With this being a factor, there are things beyond the control of Snap-on. Sure, they could run a flavor of Unix, Linux, or some other third party software, but there would be even more compatibility issues. I still have to disagree about the first Verus scope graphing ohms, there is VERY obvious hardware limitations in that scope if you open it up and do some tinker testing (and I have), so it's more than lines of code (I do that too). So even if it is a marketing ploy, so what, that's free enterprise and ALL brands do it. If car makers made cars to only break after 200k, we would not be needed. Don't get me wrong fellas, I HEAR you, and I understand the frustrations (I owned the 323, then traded up to the Pro), and also have access to an Edge.
                  Regarding any "hardware" limitations, if you were talking about AMPS I could agree with you, but not Ohms.
                  If a meter can read volts, and graph volts, fine.
                  If it can read Amps, and graph Amps, great...it's a capable tool.
                  If it can read Ohms, it surely should be able to graph Ohms. Ohms after all is merely a very low voltage put out, then a measured feedback of volts, much the same as a voltage drop test. Since it knows what voltage it is applying, then measuring the feedback volts, it calculates what the Ohms are in the circuit.
                  This is MUCH different than AMPS, which the machine is capable of. Grew up with an electrical engineer father. Older (yes, very old) Analogue meters would read Volts and Amps just fine, even with the AA or 9-v battery removed. They only needed the battery to provide the voltage for the ohm-meter to function.
                  If you had said Amps, I could agree, but not graphing Ohms. Sorry.

                  I think the reality is, there have been several "versions" of Verus and they simply want the older models to die off, which I do understand, but, intentionally hamstringing equipment so that it becomes useless isn't a very good way to build "brand loyalty" in my opinion.
                  As I said, I agree with both you and Wheel in an overall sense.
                  Last edited by Crusty; 11-01-2016, 03:24 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Wheel
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 719

                    #10
                    Originally posted by sbreland73
                    Something you guys are not taking into account is there is ONE major difference in the Verus and older MT2500, Modis, Solus platforms..........MICROSOFT.

                    Actually Microsoft DID do Windows CE on the Modis and Solus platforms. XP is WAY more capable than CE and they only just this year dropped these platforms, so I think it realistic to expect another 8-10 years of updates for the verus. If xp is the issue, then what are they going to do about the verus pro which has xp also? Since that is what you have, you may want to find out and plan accordingly. If they retire that new of a platform, then they will really have a hard time convincing people to buy their scanners, unless they drastically lower the hardware prices.

                    With this being a factor, there are things beyond the control of Snap-on. Sure, they could run a flavor of Unix, Linux, or some other third party software, but there would be even more compatibility issues. I still have to disagree about the first Verus scope graphing ohms, there is VERY obvious hardware limitations in that scope if you open it up and do some tinker testing (and I have), so it's more than lines of code (I do that too).

                    The scope's ohmmeter gathers the information data points, does it not?
                    If you monitored a potentiometer through its range, the digital meter changes values along with it, does it not? These are gathered datapoints, are they not? These once delivered can be processed and plotted by the software, can they not? Another example of software graphing - The original MT 2500 couldn't graph, but someone made computer software to make it possible on a computer - which the Verus happens to be.
                    It shouldn't even take much computing power because even the humble old vantage did it quite well with far less computing power.
                    Probably neither of us will convince the other on this issue, but your playing devil's advocate has given me a better opportunity to call Snap on out on this - thanks.


                    So even if it is a marketing ploy, so what, that's free enterprise and ALL brands do it. If car makers made cars to only break after 200k, we would not be needed. Don't get me wrong fellas, I HEAR you, and I understand the frustrations (I owned the 323, then traded up to the Pro), and also have access to an Edge.
                    More later.
                    You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

                    Comment

                    • Wheel
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 719

                      #11
                      Originally posted by sbreland73
                      other brands do and charge accordingly for the most part.. I think one has a right to expect better, longer lived support for a 10k tool as opposed to a 2k tool, for example. Snap On can do what they want, but if they make this move this early, they'll have no one to blame but themselves if they start losing scanner business because former customers will be too reluctant to sink their money in an expensive diagnostic platform made by a company who establishes a practice of retiring a product that has yet to outlive its usefulness.
                      If true, this is very clearly a marketing ploy and a very blatant one. It would be very entertaining to hear their excuses for stopping updates for these. Shooting these excuses down should be easy enough.
                      [/COLOR]

                      If car makers made cars to only break after 200k, we would not be needed.

                      Don't forget - there's always some bozo who'll either abuse or neglect their cars, or those who insist on fixing what ain't broke - surely you've met 'em - those individuals who if you gave them a feather and an anvil, you'd have a pile of metal shavings, and then there are those who just can't or won't work on their vehicles. Job security, providing there's something left to fix.

                      I feel an individual or company (like your automaker example) not doing their best - whatever that is - is guilty of cheating their customer or employer and should be held accountable.


                      Don't get me wrong fellas, I HEAR you, and I understand the frustrations (I owned the 323, then traded up to the Pro), and also have access to an Edge.

                      It sure ain't easy coming up with that kind of cash for a top of the line scanner only to have them pull the rug out from under you is it? I believe you here..
                      Don't get me wrong, I understand that eventually the hardware on any platform can get to the point where it truly won't support an update - I could see it coming and it was obvious - no explanation needed with the brick and then the Modis, but as loyal customers, if they are not going to sell updates for the Verus before it shows these same obvious signs of not being able to handle them, then we are entitled to an explanation and not excuses which some overpaid corporate bean counter is handing out to you and me.
                      You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

                      Comment

                      • 737mechanic
                        Member
                        • Sep 2016
                        • 35

                        #12
                        So I emailed snap on tech support to see if they could confirm if 17.2 was the last version and this is what they said.

                        Hello,

                        This is correct. 17.2 will be the final software upgrade for the original VERUS and the VERUS Wireless.

                        Sincerely,
                        Snap-on
                        Diagnostic Product Support Team
                        What a pisser.

                        Comment

                        • Wheel
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 719

                          #13
                          Originally posted by 737mechanic
                          So I emailed snap on tech support to see if they could confirm if 17.2 was the last version and this is what they said.



                          What a pisser.
                          I predict the Verus pro and Verdict to be at most a year behind that.
                          I don't give the Edge more than 5 years. Those are MY predictions.
                          I know I won't be buying any more scanners or scopes from Snap on that I haven't already bought if this is the kind of short lived support they are going to not provide.Can't afford to at those hardware prices. If they are going to have a revolving door policy with their hardware like this, then they need to put the Verus software on a Toughbook, supply a usb scope and bluetooth scan module, and basically get out of the hardware business.

                          I once strongly recommended Snap On diagnostic products to people and shops despite my differences of opinion on some things. I am sad to say I can no longer do that. I'll recommend something else.
                          You'd think with the competition out there from the OEM and aftermarket tools they'd try to take better care of their customers and inspire trust in them rather than alienating them.
                          Not updating a piece of equipment because it is already near its limits and obviously struggling is a hard, but understandable choice.
                          But not updating a piece of equipment that is nowhere near its limits just because the company wants to sell you a new piece of equipment is not just unethical, it's just plain wrong and betrays the trust that loyal customers have given them. It takes a lot of faith in a company to make a purchase of this dollar value - and no matter how good the product is if the company doesn't support the product as they should , then this faith is MISPLACED. I know my faith in the company is shaken completely and I assume I am not alone.
                          Let the buyer beware.
                          You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

                          Comment

                          • Witsend
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 2942

                            #14
                            What a pisser.
                            11-03-2016 03:38 AM
                            Sooner or later, All good things must come to an end .

                            Comment

                            • 737mechanic
                              Member
                              • Sep 2016
                              • 35

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Wheel
                              I predict the Verus pro and Verdict to be at most a year behind that.
                              I don't give the Edge more than 5 years. Those are MY predictions.
                              I know I won't be buying any more scanners or scopes from Snap on that I haven't already bought if this is the kind of short lived support they are going to not provide.Can't afford to at those hardware prices. If they are going to have a revolving door policy with their hardware like this, then they need to put the Verus software on a Toughbook, supply a usb scope and bluetooth scan module, and basically get out of the hardware business.

                              I once strongly recommended Snap On diagnostic products to people and shops despite my differences of opinion on some things. I am sad to say I can no longer do that. I'll recommend something else.
                              You'd think with the competition out there from the OEM and aftermarket tools they'd try to take better care of their customers and inspire trust in them rather than alienating them.
                              Not updating a piece of equipment because it is already near its limits and obviously struggling is a hard, but understandable choice.
                              But not updating a piece of equipment that is nowhere near its limits just because the company wants to sell you a new piece of equipment is not just unethical, it's just plain wrong and betrays the trust that loyal customers have given them. It takes a lot of faith in a company to make a purchase of this dollar value - and no matter how good the product is if the company doesn't support the product as they should , then this faith is MISPLACED. I know my faith in the company is shaken completely and I assume I am not alone.
                              Let the buyer beware.

                              I agree, when they charge $10000.00 per scanner and charge $1250.00 a year for software updates they have made enough money to keep it alive and going.

                              The people saying the hardware is to outdated do not know what they are talking about. The hardware is plenty fast enough to communicate with any car on the road for diagnostic purposes.

                              As far as support for winxp there is no reason winxp would ever just quit working because microsoft stops supporting it. As long as the programmers keep the same coding software they could keep making updates for as long as they wanted.

                              The only reason to stop the updates is to get people to ditch their current scanner and buy the latest and greatest for another $10000.00.

                              Looks like Autel is looking more and more attractive.

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