What I want -ROUND 2

[Steve6911]

Doug

You are wrong about Snap-on products having almost no bi-directional controls. Both the Modis and the Solus have many, and get more with each update. People (including myself) only complain about the ones we don?t have. An example would be the GM purge and seal test that I brought up. To me this is an important test, maybe in most parts of the country evap problems are not as frequent as in my area and that is why it has not been included. The system CF card and flash memory can hold just so much information, think how many product lines that the Modis and Solus covers. If Snap-on put every test that every manufacturer offered in every make and model how much space would that take up??? So it?s not a bad idea to ask-the-techs that use the tools what they want and need. And as for the $7,000.00 + price tag, that is for the Modis which is also a manufacturer specific data base and a 4 channel lab scope. The Solus is the stand alone scanner at a much less price tag but that also includes their Troubleshooter which also gets updated if you have ever used it you?d love it. Anyway I think we should continue to post our wants and needs. In the next day or so I will post some screen shots from a different make scanner showing Mode 6 done what I feel is about the best I have seen so far. Then I?ll move on to the bi-directional controls, if Snap-on decides any of this and requests from others help it can only make the Modis and Solus better!

Steve

[DougMontgomery]

Doug

You are wrong about Snap-on products having almost no bi-directional controls. Both the Modis and the Solus have many, and get more with each update.

Steve

Steve,

I am pretty sure I'm right..as ir pertained to the subject of my statement. Ford engine bi-directional. If I am wrong about that..please advise. Maybe they have added it since my attendees and the shops I goto have theri tools updated to.

Can you ramp the VMV, IAC and seal vent and open purge on a 1996-2006 Ford?

[MasterWrench]

Steve,

I am pretty sure I'm right..as ir pertained to the subject of my statement. Ford engine bi-directional. If I am wrong about that..please advise. Maybe they have added it since my attendees and the shops I goto have theri tools updated to.

Can you ramp the VMV, IAC and seal vent and open purge on a 1996-2006 Ford?

there is a thread about this topic here: http://askatech.autorepairdata.com/f...bi-directional

the search feature works well here...

[No-Start]

I'm not sure the point in linking that thread for Doug, I'm sure he knows about it, he participated in it.

But the question remains, is Snap On considering adding Ford bi-directional capabilities in their scanners?

No-Start.

[DougMontgomery]

Yea..thanks No-Start..been using forums for many...MANY years.
Matter of fact..I'm a Mod at a few

[Steve6911]

Steve,

I am pretty sure I'm right..as ir pertained to the subject of my statement. Ford engine bi-directional. If I am wrong about that..please advise. Maybe they have added it since my attendees and the shops I goto have theri tools updated to.

Can you ramp the VMV, IAC and seal vent and open purge on a 1996-2006 Ford?

Doug
Unless they added them with 7.4 my Modis cannot. But again that is why they are asking for input. I feel they should have Volvo coverage, as per this forum they poll people all over the country and found that other vehicles and or tests were needed more ( and Vovlo is not that easy to get info from ). If more and more techs request these controls maybe they will be in 8.2. I have not had much time to play with 7.4 as I just got it last week so I am not sure what bi-directional tests have been added to Ford. I know you stated you don't have the Modis or Solus but keep on asking, your only helping!

Steve

[MasterWrench]

I'm not sure the point in linking that thread for Doug, I'm sure he knows about it, he participated in it.

But the question remains, is Snap On considering adding Ford bi-directional capabilities in their scanners?

No-Start.

The point is that the discussion has been had before and this is redundant....that there has been another thread about that topic, he was asked quite nicely to start a separate thread, and it is off topic for this thread. All that needed to be said was "I would like to see more Ford bi-directional engine controls" and why in particular.....

As a side note I find it interesting he does not own a Snap-On product pertinent to this thread anyway....

[Steve6911]

Thanks Doug!
Because of you I spent both my lunch and break times as well as after hours going from car to car seeing what new bi-directional controls my Modis has. As you stated in Ford products Snap-on is some what behind. Other makes are better. I like Chrysler products, mostly Jeeps ( hey stop laughing someone has to like them!) Here are some screen shots of what the Modis has

jeep a.BMP

jeep b.BMP

jeep1.BMP

jeep2.BMP

jeep3.BMP

There would be more but I can only display 5 shots on a post. Not to bad huh? I know there could be more controls and tests but it has been getting better!

Another test I have found that Snap-on has not added is the Nissan "idle air volume learning" this is needed if you change the idle actuator,ECM or if the idle is out of spec. It can be done wihout a scanner but is VERY difficult. I also have a screen shot up in the Mode 6 forum from another scan tool that I have. So far it is about the best Mode 6 display I have seen, with definitions and good and bad values, check that post out also.
As I think of more I'll add them to my posts. Maybe at the end we can make a summary for Snap-on and maybe we'll get some of them .

Steve

[DougMontgomery]

The point is that the discussion has been had before and this is redundant....that there has been another thread about that topic, he was asked quite nicely to start a separate thread, and it is off topic for this thread. All that needed to be said was "I would like to see more Ford bi-directional engine controls" and why in particular.....

As a side note I find it interesting he does not own a Snap-On product pertinent to this thread anyway....

MW,

I am sorry that you feel it is redundant. The "WHY" for bi-directional is going to be just abou the same..no matter what the vehicle make. To ease the diagnostics of the tech using the device. Hell..in some instances..to ALLOW the tech to diagnose the system.

In respect to owning a pertinent Snap-On product...I own a MT2500..however I do not update it twice a year. I own 6 scantools now and it would be cost prohibitive to update all 6 once or twice a year. However, since I teach almost 4,000 technician a year and spend time at their shops, that DO own Snap-On products, i thought I could help them in this forum.

Since Snap-On's technical assistance and on-going tool training has just about diminished anywhere but on the west coast..I'm also trying to help Snap-On. Maybe they could help me help them with a tool?

[DougMontgomery]

Thanks Doug!
Because of you I spent both my lunch and break times as well as after hours going from car to car seeing what new bi-directional controls my Modis has. As you stated in Ford products Snap-on is some what behind. Other makes are better. I like Chrysler products, mostly Jeeps ( hey stop laughing someone has to like them!)
Steve

Steve,

I'm not laughing..I worked as a tem leader/shop foreman for almost 9 years at a Dodge/Jeep/Eagle dealer. Made great $$ there

[Steve6911]

MW,


Since Snap-On's technical assistance and on-going tool training has just about diminished anywhere but on the west coast..I'm also trying to help Snap-On. Maybe they could help me help them with a tool?

Hi Doug

I don?t know about the rest of the east coast but here on Long Island Snap-on has put a lot of time and effort into training. They have a warehouse in Farmingdale and their tech rep covers both Nassau and Suffolk counties. He runs courses every couple of weeks. Only bad part is for the most part he runs basic classes, I have been trying to get him to do advanced classes with things like pressure transducers, third party hardware like the FLS, pass thru programming and so on but he has stated that most people still need help with the basics ie the correct way to setup a scope for a given application.. I still go every once in a while a usually pick up a little something or a least hear what is coming down the road soon. Might not be perfect yet but they are trying.

Steve

[MasterWrench]

MW,

I am sorry that you feel it is redundant. The "WHY" for bi-directional is going to be just abou the same..no matter what the vehicle make. To ease the diagnostics of the tech using the device. Hell..in some instances..to ALLOW the tech to diagnose the system.

In respect to owning a pertinent Snap-On product...I own a MT2500..however I do not update it twice a year. I own 6 scantools now and it would be cost prohibitive to update all 6 once or twice a year. However, since I teach almost 4,000 technician a year and spend time at their shops, that DO own Snap-On products, i thought I could help them in this forum.

Since Snap-On's technical assistance and on-going tool training has just about diminished anywhere but on the west coast..I'm also trying to help Snap-On. Maybe they could help me help them with a tool?

I do understand the need for bi-directional controls. They do make some things much easier to check. Any system that I am aware of can be diagnosed without the bi-directional controls, it is just more involved.

Tell your students about the site and they can come here and ask for what they want in their tools too.

Updating scanners is very expensive, but unfortunately it isn't going to get cheaper anytime soon.

My tech rep is a member on this forum. He has "user group" training that is pretty basic as well, and having trained techs myself, I can understand keeping things basic.

Here in Columbus, the tech rep and dealers have gotten together and had the guys from PRO Auto Tech come and give advanced classes that were great. The instructor for those classes is also a member of this forum.

I have found that there are only a few people that are willing to learn to do advanced diagnostics or have any kind of instructional background in electronics or physics to really be able to comprehend most of the systems anymore. Even simple dc electricity baffles them. For most it just is over their heads and willingness to invest the time and money to be able to do the work. "Why should I spend 10k, and hours in classes to learn diag work when I turn more hours than you doing the simple stuff"..one of my new "trainees" asked me that last week...

There is never going to be a "perfect" generic scan tool that "does it all" and each manufacturer is going to have to pick and chose very carefully what they put into their tools because there is a limit. Which one is "the best"? Overall, taking all makes and models into consideration, I have yet to see any that are as good as a MODIS/SOLUS. OE tools are always the best bet for any make.

[DougMontgomery]

I do understand the need for bi-directional controls. They do make some things much easier to check. Any system that I am aware of can be diagnosed without the bi-directional controls, it is just more involved.

Hence..more $$$ lost. If a tech takes more time on a vehicle..cause he has to improvise..he and the owner lose $$$

Tell your students about the site and they can come here and ask for what they want in their tools too.

I will

Updating scanners is very expensive, but unfortunately it isn't going to get cheaper anytime soon.

My tech rep is a member on this forum. He has "user group" training that is pretty basic as well, and having trained techs myself, I can understand keeping things basic.

Here in Columbus, the tech rep and dealers have gotten together and had the guys from PRO Auto Tech come and give advanced classes that were great. The instructor for those classes is also a member of this forum.

I have found that there are only a few people that are willing to learn to do advanced diagnostics or have any kind of instructional background in electronics or physics to really be able to comprehend most of the systems anymore. Even simple dc electricity baffles them. For most it just is over their heads and willingness to invest the time and money to be able to do the work. "Why should I spend 10k, and hours in classes to learn diag work when I turn more hours than you doing the simple stuff"..one of my new "trainees" asked me that last week...

I agree....just tonight..I tried to get into inductance vs resistance, mutual inductance...reflected capacitance....if I was a hunter with a bow...would have had multiple 10 pointers!

There is never going to be a "perfect" generic scan tool that "does it all" and each manufacturer is going to have to pick and chose very carefully what they put into their tools because there is a limit. Which one is "the best"? Overall, taking all makes and models into consideration, I have yet to see any that are as good as a MODIS/SOLUS. OE tools are always the best bet for any make.

Agreed

[bobob]

i wish i could get the training where i live but even if i could i could not afford it,as for my scan tools i love my solus but barely know how to do more than check codes, i have a vantage pro and used it to do a simple frequency test on a crank sensor this week and that made everyone at work think i was the s--t but i know how limited i ami wish i knew about half of what you guys are talking about

[Steve6911]

Hi Bob

Well your off to a good start, joining this forum! Now join www.iatn.net as well. Practice on known good cars, nothing is worse then trying to fix a car with a tool you don't know how to use. Ask questions that you have on both sites as the only dumb question is the one NOT asked.


Steve