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  #11  
Old 06-20-2014, 02:21 PM
Crusty Crusty is offline
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Well just for Shxxs & Giggles, I plugged in my Solus Ultra and here it shows the 4 wheel speed sensors at a peak of 5-MPH and then another one at 10-MPH. I just backed up, pulled forward and backed up again leaving the shop today and grabbed a couple of pics with my cell phone.

Diagnosis time....all of about 30 seconds once I was in the ABS data group.


I have used this slow speed technique to verify a sensor signal dropping out for several years....and the Solus-scanners are just a tad more portable than the Counselor-II....LOL

Had a Cadi in a few weeks ago and the wheel bearing rumbled and the sensor picked it up. The bearing was noisy so it got replaced and the Cadi didn't need a sensor (they come separately on the CTS).

The last shot shows AFTER the bearing replacement proving to Audrey that all she needed was the bearing and the sensor itself was OK.

The Solus-PRO will do the same thing as the Solus-ULTRA and they can be had at reasonable prices apparently.
BTW...I like the cold one in the corner...LOL
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2014, 03:21 PM
Witsend Witsend is offline
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Thumbs up

The 4th picture down you posted is awesome, I can really see the corruption of signal from the LR wheel speed sensor but I don't see the one posted reading 10 mph where the others are reading 5mph
I'm Just learning how to use The Old Counselor I have ,Ignition work it's seems decent, but the Lab Scope part doesn't seem to work worth a Sh@t, but so far was able to use the 10A optional low amp clamp I bought by selecting Vacuum wave form from menu and was able to view a nice pattern from the fuel pump circuit with a current loop fuse buddy , and today I figured out how to component test and compare a wheel speed sensor pattern to another selecting alternator wave form. I will resort to Couselor 2 If my DS 708 scanner graphing lets me down like it is known to do
I'm sure Snap On even had some software holes on 25 year old lab scope like this but it's still a good solid piece of hardware, and I was able figure out some thing to get around it and view something useful
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  #13  
Old 06-20-2014, 03:41 PM
Crusty Crusty is offline
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The first two phone pics are from my own vehicle today....
Known good vehicle....no problems....just showing to keep the vehicle speed slow to get better resolution in the graphs. 1st pic was at 5-mph. Second pic was at 10-mph and you can see how the graph expanded....so keep the speeds down when your using this technique.

The other three are screen shots from the scanner. It flagged a wheel speed sensor code when all that was wrong was the bearing.

That 4th one that you like proved that the vehicle was correct in that it didn't like what it got as an input from the sensor. Again a fairly low vehicle speed capture. The ROOT CAUSE was the BEARING, NOT the sensor-!!
The ROOT CAUSE is far too often overlooked and the "symptom" gets treated and the underlying problem remains.....THAT'S WHY so many parts are tossed at vehicles these days.....
It never was the correct method and it's even more important today to find the ROOT CAUSE.

Then the bearing was changed and the last screen shot shows that the sensor was happy without a rumbling bearing....the sensor was OK. The customer was happy she didn't need BOTH components. In fact she was just in yesterday for a vehicle service....if there had been ANY kind of an ongoing issue she would have said so.

USUALLY they'll show up at lower speeds but if it doesn't THEN I will increase the vehicle speed so the graph doesn't expand vertically to accommodate the highest speed that it saw on that road test.

Always good to have another method of PROVING OUT what you suspect, so I'm glad you're having fun with your 25 year old "toy"...LOL
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2014, 07:17 AM
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I love tools new and old as much as all of us and more than some of us, but your determination to make this Counselor work in your professional life seems to me to be costing you money Wit...Am I right? how much time do you spend figuring out how to do tests with this thing? Everything seems like an adventure when you break it out If these all are side work vehicles or hobby projects I understand, the joy/challenge of using stuff like this is fun. But if these are cars your using to pay your mortgage Id sure as hell be working on getting a quicker/more friendly solution. You seem to like torturing yourself. LOL

A $200 Vantage wouldve found that WSS drop out probably ten times quicker than the Counselor. Just food for thought. Im sure we're all flat-rate or owners here and I just dont like to see guys (who arent my competition) wasting their time and money.
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2014, 07:45 AM
Crusty Crusty is offline
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Hay Maven....
If your "competition" isn't wasting their time, YOU get to fix the vehicle sooner anyway-!! LOL
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty View Post
Hay Maven....
If your "competition" isn't wasting their time, YOU get to fix the vehicle sooner anyway-!! LOL
Oh of course....if Wit was in my competitive area Id be asking him if he could write me up a tutorial or post videos of him using that Counselor.
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2014, 11:21 AM
Witsend Witsend is offline
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Smile Counselor 2

I couldn't find much useful documentation and information out there about how to use a Counselor 2 with the optional low amp probe I paid $50 for and was determined to make it work somehow , or how to component test a wheel speed sensor with a Counselor 2 .So yes I wasted time , for a few hours having a few cold ones figuring a work around and share it on here . Those 2 things I tried with Lab scope selection either gave me an error or lab scope didn't want to work .
Well If the low amp clamp doesn't work when selecting lab scope , then just select vacuum wave form off menu and use the low amp probe in place of the vacuum probe and you can see a decent fuel pump trace off a fuse buddy loop just fine and yes you can do it within minutes just like a Vantage Pro because I spent an hour of my time so folk can still skin the same cat in a few minutes using a vintage 25 year old scope because I posted what actually worked.
I admit I spent time trying to get Lab scope selection to work to perform component test on a wheel speed sensor , but now others with a Counselor 2 that read the thread know what to do , if You have to component test a wheel speed sensor like a Vantage Pro, slowly turning the hub to see an actual trace ,selecting alternator waveform will work to test the ones that generate a sine wave. A few of the old Thexton coil adapters in the Counselor 2 drawer have a couple leads with micro insulated alligator clips that fit right into the hub speed sensor connector and the larger alligator clips of the Counselor clip to the larger coil adapter terminals. Surprised such a low voltage AC wheel sensor signal works so well off Alternator waveform selection.
Got a EEIG100a COP adapter set for $150 locally that works well on some but not all applications for viewing secondary successfully with it . I've tried it on. On a Chrysler or Jeep 4.7, flipped flags and the sticks ,played with gain knob and no no dice. Also on a Ford COP 4.6 it displayed something like a triple firing with error messages .Maybe because some newer cars triple the fire plugs for combustion at idle and lower engine speeds. The Counselor 2 struggles to present a decent trace when it expects an 8 cylinder engine to fire only 8 times every couple revolutions
I read in some old threads that at least the sticks and flags of the COP kit will work on a Verus and other newer Snap On scopes , but the adapter part with the gain knob is not required. Anyone using parts of this kit successfully with a Verus, Modis or Vantage Pro?

Last edited by Witsend; 06-21-2014 at 12:55 PM..
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2014, 12:41 PM
hefaus hefaus is offline
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Default Wasted time

Well I am with Wit. At least he doesnt give up and Knowledge is few and far between these days. If you want to know You have to play so Your Customers know who they are dealing with. Waste Time. I think not and on top this person even makes the time to share.Gota love that. Keep Smiling. From an old retired guy who still plays.The latest is the MaxiSys.Just loving it as well.
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  #19  
Old 06-21-2014, 02:13 PM
Witsend Witsend is offline
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Talking Counselor 2 is still capable

Hey There's no doubt there's newer faster tools to get the job diagnosed and done faster in a production shop where so many techs are just throwing parts at vehicles based on, codes. Like myself , maybe after looking at scanner graphs, Pids, checking TSB's, or quick IATN searches for pattern part failures, but sooner or later someone's got to dust off the old Counselor 2 in sitting in corner of shop , or buy something newer and hope to see some sort of a return on it soon before The Next Blue moon and pulls up my old thread with the pics of my beer cans on my Counselor 2 , he's gonna calm down and take his time read my tips on how I got thing to work , and have the component tested before having his next Blue moon. LOL
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  #20  
Old 06-22-2014, 04:31 AM
Crusty Crusty is offline
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Hey Witsend,...
As long as you learned something it was all an exercise worthwhile.

Analogue meters, digital meters, pressure and vacuum gauges, and yes scopes too, all show us, the humans, what is happening and when it is happening.
Just two of the proverbial Who What When Where Why.

Tossing parts is no different than going to Vegas and Shooting Craps. Figuring out the ROOT CAUSE and being specific in our repairs is better for everyone, except the parts manufacturers....LOL

Your curiosity will stand you in good stead AFAIC

As for the signal you were able to catch in your printout, I personally would want to confirm that failure indication more than once. A repeatable confirmation of that failure means it wasn't just chance.
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