What We Still need 2013 Edition

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  • DKelly
    Senior Member
    • May 2008
    • 118

    #16
    Originally posted by Bob's Garage
    with GM there is a limit to how many PIDs are in a "packet" so a full list really isn't possible
    Bob has this correct. The limits are more about what the controller will support. It's all in the details. Most VPW (J-1850) controllers for example have a 48 byte limit. If you go over that limit the controller rejects our request and you get no-comm. And that is just the start of it. Predefined data groups are the best way around this. At least we give you the option to select a different data group during a functional test unlike the GM factory tools.

    Comment

    • Wheel
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2007
      • 719

      #17
      Originally posted by DKelly
      Bob has this correct. The limits are more about what the controller will support. It's all in the details. Most VPW (J-1850) controllers for example have a 48 byte limit. If you go over that limit the controller rejects our request and you get no-comm. And that is just the start of it. Predefined data groups are the best way around this. At least we give you the option to select a different data group during a functional test unlike the GM factory tools.
      Ok, so this explains at least for some GM's why we can't select from a super group of pids. Is there any possibilities of getting around this
      by the suggestion I made earlier:
      Perhaps a way to work around this is give the mechanic the ability to visit each existing data group one at a time, then mark the pids from each group he wants in a custom group up to the allowable maximum for a packet, which will then be remembered and saved to build a custom list with.
      or are what pids can be found in what group pretty well set in stone?
      You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

      Comment

      • Bob's Garage
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2007
        • 3257

        #18
        Originally posted by Modis500
        Bob,

        By that statement, I meant that lots of guys complain about this update or that update, and what I've heard about 12.2, it was a nightmare for the Verdict guys. Don't know personally, won't buy that product. What I did mean was I haven't found anything to complain about by going to 12.4 and that Snappy seems to improve more so now than in the past. Many of the guys said that after 10.4, it has improved drastically. Was just thinking out loud...sometimes I ramble on!
        10.4 was the start of Atlas. Kind of like the first new body style in cars where a lot is fixed the next model year.
        12.2 was no worse or better on a Verdict than the Verus, in my opinion.

        12.4 is a good build. 13.2 is coming soon, some changes there too.

        Thanks for clarifying that statement.

        Bob

        Comment

        • Crusty
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 2450

          #19
          Originally posted by DKelly
          Bob has this correct. The limits are more about what the controller will support. It's all in the details. Most VPW (J-1850) controllers for example have a 48 byte limit. If you go over that limit the controller rejects our request and you get no-comm. And that is just the start of it. Predefined data groups are the best way around this. At least we give you the option to select a different data group during a functional test unlike the GM factory tools.
          What about setting up an "open" data group where the tech can fill it with his own selections up to a certain limit. It could have a 15 or 20 pid limit to stay clear of the 48-byte limitations and yet allow the tech to see what he needs to see at any particular time.
          Have the machine remember this selection of pids so the next time he uses that personalized data group, perhaps on another vehicle, it looks for those same pids and if one or two are not available on that particular vehicle, the machine changes the colour to RED so the tech knows that pid isn't supported by that current ECM/PCM.
          Some guys find certain common pids very usefull for their way of thinking and sometimes different vehicles have different maladies where the pre-configured data groups don't have the relevent pids for multiple problems.
          Sometimes a data group may not have the O2 sensors or the TPS/APP but those pids might be very usefull in the particular circumstance.
          If a pid is RED and not available on the next vehicle, he/she can then change the selection to another pid that is available on the particular vehicle he/she has in front of them.

          Comment

          • tomtec
            Member
            • Jun 2013
            • 43

            #20
            Originally posted by greasybob
            Just ran across a couple of vehicles that did not have the functional tests that you would expect them to have. The first was a 2011 Ford Escape that had a P0466, Evap Emission System Vent Control Circuit. There were not any functional tests listed for this vehicle. VIN 1FMCU9EGBKA05073.
            The second was 2006 Chevy Cobalt VIN 1G1AL18F067694871. Had a problem with the radiator cooling fan. While there are functional tests for this vehicle the cooling fan or fan relays are not there. I did not have time to check with the tech2win to see if this function is offered but I would think something this basic should be included.
            what version s/w is this please?

            Comment

            • tomtec
              Member
              • Jun 2013
              • 43

              #21
              Originally posted by Modis500
              Kind of off-topic of what you guys have been talking about with the functional tests, but just got done reading the thread about the PID Groups and which PID's are available in which pre-selected group. I think it might have been Crusty that asked for the option to choose which PID's you want from a master list for ECM or TCM or BCM, whatever it may be, and watch just that set of data, without S.O. choosing which PID Group it's tossed into. Sometimes we'll want data from two different groups, but can't watch both simultaneously. That would be a nice addition for 13.4...I'm sure you guys have 13.2 finalized for us, but just thinking ahead. Give us all a little flexibility, and it won't slow the data feed either with a bunch of stuff we're not using at that moment. Just thinking out loud.
              Oh, also, any chance of getting hired on at S.O. in the Diagnostics R&D Dept? That would be a fun job!
              modis500 I have already asked for that job

              Comment

              • Wheel
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2007
                • 719

                #22
                Originally posted by DKelly
                Bob has this correct. The limits are more about what the controller will support. It's all in the details. Most VPW (J-1850) controllers for example have a 48 byte limit. If you go over that limit the controller rejects our request and you get no-comm. And that is just the start of it. Predefined data groups are the best way around this. At least we give you the option to select a different data group during a functional test unlike the GM factory tools.
                If the GM problem proves impossible to circumvent, then I'd like to encourage you to do what you can for us with the rest of the manufacturers toward a feature to allow us to build our own pid groups in addition to the option of using one of the existing pre-built groups.
                I'm certain any help here would be much appreciated by all of us.
                You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

                Comment

                • Modis500
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 358

                  #23
                  Ford Functional Testing

                  Dear Snap On,

                  I'm just writing this note to you so that you may take some of our requests to heart....here's some, and these are just for Ford Functional Tests...all years, just not the early models
                  Radiator Fan Tests....tested an '09 Focus, tried to toggle fans off and on, unable to...Yes, I'm aware this is available on SOME Ford vehicles,
                  Injector Balance Tests...See my thread posting" '04 Ford 3.9 MAF Sensor...this would have been EXTREMELY Helpful in my diagnosis, and saved many guys some time who have helped me on here.
                  I do appreciate the Cylinder Contribution Test (Saved my butt more than a few times!) and the Fuel Pump Duty Cycle which is getting more and more use, however it seems that '09 and up Ford has very, very LIMITED, if any at all, Functional Testing on some or most of their vehicles, mostly their lower to mid-value vehicles...Escape, Focus, etc..
                  And guys, if I'm missing something in my menu on my scanner, please let me know. I've been known to insert my foot-in-mouth many times, and this may be true on this topic...by the way, I'm on 12.4, don't think 13.2 has fixed any or all of these topics. I really don't wanna buy an IDS, and my wife will not be pleased either
                  "If you aim for nothing, you'll hit it every time!"
                  Zig Ziglar

                  Comment

                  • tomtec
                    Member
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 43

                    #24
                    what we still need 2013 edition

                    Originally posted by Modis500
                    Kind of off-topic of what you guys have been talking about with the functional tests, but just got done reading the thread about the PID Groups and which PID's are available in which pre-selected group. I think it might have been Crusty that asked for the option to choose which PID's you want from a master list for ECM or TCM or BCM, whatever it may be, and watch just that set of data, without S.O. choosing which PID Group it's tossed into. Sometimes we'll want data from two different groups, but can't watch both simultaneously. That would be a nice addition for 13.4...I'm sure you guys have 13.2 finalized for us, but just thinking ahead. Give us all a little flexibility, and it won't slow the data feed either with a bunch of stuff we're not using at that moment. Just thinking out loud.
                    Oh, also, any chance of getting hired on at S.O. in the Diagnostics R&D Dept? That would be a fun job!
                    I Agree I Would Be Second In Line That R&D Job!!!!

                    Comment

                    • phill57
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 474

                      #25
                      customizable data groups

                      Just reading some older posts and having recently finally updated to 13.4 thought I would chime in here. I have asked for this capability, among others and I really don't think it's limited by the vehicle or the ECM having specific groups of PIDs. With other scan software for instance such as AutoEnginuity you can do a PID validation to see what PIDs the controller supports and then build your own custom list from those available. Of course the more you select the slower the refresh rate typically becomes. There are actually hundreds of PIDs we never see because the controller may support them but they are not used on the actual vehicle. When you are done with this configuration you can save it so that next time you open the same type of vehicle you will have the custom list. In fact I don't recall AE having predefined lists at all.

                      I have another piece of software called Torque which can run on a laptop or Android smart phone and it's similar. Add your custom pids and save the configuration. So I really think its possible.

                      Comment

                      • Wheel
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 719

                        #26
                        Originally posted by phill57
                        Just reading some older posts and having recently finally updated to 13.4 thought I would chime in here. I have asked for this capability, among others and I really don't think it's limited by the vehicle or the ECM having specific groups of PIDs. With other scan software for instance such as AutoEnginuity you can do a PID validation to see what PIDs the controller supports and then build your own custom list from those available. Of course the more you select the slower the refresh rate typically becomes. There are actually hundreds of PIDs we never see because the controller may support them but they are not used on the actual vehicle. When you are done with this configuration you can save it so that next time you open the same type of vehicle you will have the custom list. In fact I don't recall AE having predefined lists at all.

                        I have another piece of software called Torque which can run on a laptop or Android smart phone and it's similar. Add your custom pids and save the configuration. So I really think its possible.
                        I really want this too along with other things, but with the current trend of removing capabilities instead of adding them, I feel one would be lucky to keep features one already has when updating to 14.2 let alone getting anything anyone asked for.

                        It's not surprising to me why this forum on what we want in our tools has kinda went dead.
                        You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

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