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  • sbreland73
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1076

    #16
    Proper diagnosis requires proper tooling. You open up the possibility to misdiagnose when you don't have the right equipment. If your tooling is not capable, best not try. Might as well just take a wild guess.
    S. Breland

    Comment

    • Ecomike
      Junior Member
      • May 2016
      • 17

      #17
      Originally posted by sbreland73
      Proper diagnosis requires proper tooling. You open up the possibility to misdiagnose when you don't have the right equipment. If your tooling is not capable, best not try. Might as well just take a wild guess.
      Thanks, but that did not answer the question. The question is will it work at all, will it retrieve generic OBD-II codes for instance, what will it do?

      "I do not know" is an acceptable answer. So is "maybe but". I was hoping to find details where others have done this on various GM cars in that year range, as I have already read some signs that it can be done in some cases.

      I have no problem using torque pro and a blue tooth OBD-II device, common sense and 40 years of know how and experience... and I have kept this 01 on the road for 273,000 miles with out a brick, so I must be doing something right. One of the "proper tools" I find missing at most auto repair places is the mechanics. That is why I do all my own work/repairs and have a custom built 85 Cherokee jeep with an 81 Nissan SD-22 engine and transmission....that gets 34 mpg on diesel with about 300,000 miles on it. Only diagnostic tool I have for it is me and an analog multi-meter, volts, ohms and ohms law... LOL.

      Comment

      • sbreland73
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 1076

        #18
        Originally posted by Ecomike
        Thanks, but that did not answer the question. The question is will it work at all, will it retrieve generic OBD-II codes for instance, what will it do?

        "I do not know" is an acceptable answer. So is "maybe but". I was hoping to find details where others have done this on various GM cars in that year range, as I have already read some signs that it can be done in some cases.

        I have no problem using torque pro and a blue tooth OBD-II device, common sense and 40 years of know how and experience... and I have kept this 01 on the road for 273,000 miles with out a brick, so I must be doing something right. One of the "proper tools" I find missing at most auto repair places is the mechanics. That is why I do all my own work/repairs and have a custom built 85 Cherokee jeep with an 81 Nissan SD-22 engine and transmission....that gets 34 mpg on diesel with about 300,000 miles on it. Only diagnostic tool I have for it is me and an analog multi-meter, volts, ohms and ohms law... LOL.



        Well the best of luck to you then.
        S. Breland

        Comment

        • Ecomike
          Junior Member
          • May 2016
          • 17

          #19
          Originally posted by sbreland73
          Well the best of luck to you then.
          Thanks!!!!

          Comment

          • Witsend
            Banned
            • Nov 2012
            • 2942

            #20
            Will a 97 set of GM... cartridges work at all on a 2001 Saturn SL-1 if I by pass the VIN code Id entry? Is there a way to get some basic use where the 01 is nearly the same as say a 96? Can I just tell the brick it is a 97?
            Hey I love your Bottom Feeder tenacity desire to make what you got work , LOL, The truth is that a lot of things change electronically on a car between 1997 and 2001 and if you want to be stubborn and be "Mikey will try anything", at least do yourself a favor and at least see if a 01 Saturn PCM is the same style and connector pin out as an 97 before trying.
            I agree 99% with Stacey and the Steven Hawking quote about , "Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change" However being intelligent and adapting to change buying newer tools every week get's rather expensive and no guarantee you'll get get laid this weekend if you don't have a dollar to your name to go out.

            Comment

            • Ecomike
              Junior Member
              • May 2016
              • 17

              #21
              Originally posted by Witsend
              Hey I love your Bottom Feeder tenacity desire to make what you got work , LOL, The truth is that a lot of things change electronically on a car between 1997 and 2001 and if you want to be stubborn and be "Mikey will try anything", at least do yourself a favor and at least see if a 01 Saturn PCM is the same style and connector pin out as an 97 before trying.
              I agree 99% with Stacey and the Steven Hawking quote about , "Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change" However being intelligent and adapting to change buying newer tools every week get's rather expensive and no guarantee you'll get get laid this weekend if you don't have a dollar to your name to go out.
              I have been a member of the Saturn expert DIY site since about 2007, working with Saturn pros keeping my SL-1 working and what I hear repeatedly is how little difference there is from Gen 2 to Gen 3. So yes I have done my home work, just trying to complete my MT-2500 home work now.

              I bought the MT-2500 primarily because the new toy finally hit my price point for having a unit that will actually talk to the Renix era ECU on the 87-90 Jeeps I have. I added the OBD-II hardware for the 96 Ford (transmission) I am working on.

              I am actually considered one of the 3 top experts on the Renix multiport fuel injection jeeps of that era on Naxja....and I have actually invented a number of simple, cheap hardware tests that even Jeep-Chrysler never figured out for debugging them, with out a fancy idiot proof mechanics aid like the MT-2500, for knowing how to figure out and debug things the old fashioned way. So please, enough with the attempts at insults. Just answer my question if you have any experience with what it will do in the case I asked about, a 2001 GM Saturn.

              Comment

              • Ecomike
                Junior Member
                • May 2016
                • 17

                #22
                But thanks for the suggestion:

                "at least do yourself a favor and at least see if a 01 Saturn PCM is the same style and connector pin out as an 97 before trying."

                But a lot of things change in the same year as well. Like accessories. Very little changed on the 97 to 01 saturn SL-1.

                Originally posted by Witsend
                Hey I love your Bottom Feeder tenacity desire to make what you got work , LOL, The truth is that a lot of things change electronically on a car between 1997 and 2001 and if you want to be stubborn and be "Mikey will try anything", at least do yourself a favor and at least see if a 01 Saturn PCM is the same style and connector pin out as an 97 before trying.
                I agree 99% with Stacey and the Steven Hawking quote about , "Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change" However being intelligent and adapting to change buying newer tools every week get's rather expensive and no guarantee you'll get get laid this weekend if you don't have a dollar to your name to go out.

                Comment

                • sbreland73
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 1076

                  #23
                  What we are trying to say is that while the brick was a great tool, like the vehicles it serviced, it is out dated, and no longer supported. Most users, and members of this forum have moved on to another tool, or retired, so the questions you ask, most folks here wrenching for a living either dont know the answer, or have forgotten. I used a brick often back in my earlier days, but the last time I had one in my hands was over fifteen years ago. If I could answer your questions with certainty, I would. We are not trying to insult.
                  S. Breland

                  Comment

                  • BMW JEDI
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 422

                    #24
                    The MT2500 will serve as a makeshift wheel chock to prevent the Saturn from rolling away while you are looking for the right tool for the job

                    Comment

                    • Joe Rappa
                      Snap-on DSD
                      • Aug 2007
                      • 2050

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Ecomike
                      Will a 97 set of GM... cartridges work at all on a 2001 Saturn SL-1 if I by pass the VIN code Id entry? Is there a way to get some basic use where the 01 is nearly the same as say a 96? Can I just tell the brick it is a 97?
                      The only way to know this is to try it. If I had to guess, and I do, I'd so no. It's a big gap of model years. If the engine VIN is the same, you might have a chance. If you give it a try, check the data closely on a known good vehicle. Some of it may not be correct.

                      Joe
                      "You don't build a reputation on what you're going to do"
                      Henry Ford

                      Comment

                      • Ecomike
                        Junior Member
                        • May 2016
                        • 17

                        #26
                        Old but not obsolete MT-2500

                        As Arnold Schwarzenegger said in the last Terminator movie, "I am old but not obsolete" LOL

                        My jeeps are 31-28 years old, half my age, close to 300,000 miles on 4 of the rigs I own, older than my new to me MT-2500. Next you all will be telling me to buy a new car LOL.

                        Thanks for the feed back, but new users will drop in here like me I suspect. A new generation of junk yard dogs like Me, LOL, that will figure out the answers and post them on here and elsewhere if needed. Thanks for the feedback. The MT-2500s are it seems finding a second life with old timers like me keeping these old antiques running.

                        Originally posted by sbreland73
                        What we are trying to say is that while the brick was a great tool, like the vehicles it serviced, it is out dated, and no longer supported. Most users, and members of this forum have moved on to another tool, or retired, so the questions you ask, most folks here wrenching for a living either dont know the answer, or have forgotten. I used a brick often back in my earlier days, but the last time I had one in my hands was over fifteen years ago. If I could answer your questions with certainty, I would. We are not trying to insult.

                        Comment

                        • Ecomike
                          Junior Member
                          • May 2016
                          • 17

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Joe Rappa
                          The only way to know this is to try it. If I had to guess, and I do, I'd so no. It's a big gap of model years. If the engine VIN is the same, you might have a chance. If you give it a try, check the data closely on a known good vehicle. Some of it may not be correct.

                          Joe
                          Thanks Joe, I would also expect some issues and errors, and I know how to tell when that happens. I just hope to get some useful data out of it for now on the Saturn. If not It will serve me well keeping the 1987-89 Renix jeep fleet I own running another 10-15 years or more as I found zero dealer DRB scanners for sale in 10 years of watching for them. And the MT-2500 is the only option I ever found. While I can keep them running with out any scanner, just using the force (LOL), and my 40 year old analog multimeter, the MT-2500 will I hope, be a nice improvement time wise for some debugging at times. At least it will tell what the ECU thinks is going on....Also it will work on the nearly 300,000 mile 96 Ford Taurus I have rescued from short trip to the junk yard several times already. I know that the newer MT-2500 cartridges will work on the Saturn, just don't need them bad enough to pay the hefty used prices for them yet. There seems to be plenty of demand on Ebay even now for these car chuck/door stop BRICKS!!!!

                          Comment

                          • Witsend
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 2942

                            #28
                            My brother kind of loves finding classic 2 door Japanese death traps like a 93 GEO convertible that keeps the dust from getting too thick on my MT2500. Jeez, I sure wish he at least get cars with box section reinforcements I'm not afraid to put a jack stand under, but the 86 CRX SI he drove by today looks pretty nice. My son's has my wife's old 99 SC-1. I never was too crazy about how low it sits and getting into and out of that car,it always seems to need oil , but the AC still works and it's decent on gas mileage , and putting up on jack stands is not a dicey proposition yet.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                            • Ecomike
                              Junior Member
                              • May 2016
                              • 17

                              #29
                              The Saturn SL-1 is lower to the ground than I like too, but it is light on the wallet. My daughter put the last 100,000 miles on it in the last 8 years. She just leased a Chevy Cruise for about $67/month for 2 years and I ended up with the Saturn. Bought it from an engineer weekend-mechanic friend/work buddy of mine that took great care of it. My son will use it this year if the Ford is too far gone to bother with ( I am not a real fan of Fords). That leaves me with 3 running Renix jeeps, one I am starting on that is new to me and one spare body, with no drive train that I was going to make into an all electric fuel cell powered Jeep, but with my health issues and age it may not happen. But I still have it on the ROUNDTOIT list, and still shopping for a bucket, since I don't have a bucket list LOL.

                              My brother had a real nice used Geo (not sure of the details) before it tangled with a drunk tree years ago. He never had any problems with it.

                              I should have the last of my MT-2500 stuff here by Tuesday next week. Reading the manuals already. Got about $330 invested in the entire package so far. About $210 of that is to cover early OBD-II and also duplicate covers the 87-89 Renix....
                              the other $120 of that covered just the Renix basics. Getting up to 2001 will run another $100 or more at today's cartridge prices.

                              Comment

                              • BMW JEDI
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2012
                                • 422

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Ecomike
                                I should have the last of my MT-2500 stuff here by Tuesday next week. Reading the manuals already. Got about $330 invested in the entire package so far. About $210 of that is to cover early OBD-II and also duplicate covers the 87-89 Renix....
                                the other $120 of that covered just the Renix basics. Getting up to 2001 will run another $100 or more at today's cartridge prices.
                                Keep in mind, that the newer the cartridge you get for the MT2500, the more information and tests it will have even for the older models. Snap-on did not only add new models to each update, but also new models, modules, pids and other functions for older models, every year.

                                IOW, get the newest cartridge you can afford. The 2007-2009 black programmable cartridges have pretty much everything in them, up to that point. IIRC, the 2009 is the final version for the MT2500.

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