Missing Controller 2004 Envoy Rear HVAC

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  • phill57
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2007
    • 474

    Missing Controller 2004 Envoy Rear HVAC

    Working on a 2004 GMC Envoy vin 1GKET16SX46172779, for problem with no blower fan in the rear auxiliary heater/AC. Snap-On 14.4 has no access to the rear HVAC module for codes, data or tests. Makes diagnosis very difficult and time consuming. Bidirectional controls allow commanding the fan motor on and off while viewing data, doing an actuator re-calibration, controlling the mode door, mix door and water valve. Had to resort to a different scanner again. This is an 11 year old vehicle and I think it's pretty common in Canada and the US.

    On another note the Snap-On software will not auto id or network scan this vehicle which it obviously supports. There are other missing controllers as well.
  • ToltecasChavez
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2011
    • 408

    #2
    This has always been a problem with some cars. Some mercedes you can't read the SAM modules. Some fords u can't connect to the air suspension. Many other cars as well. This is why I have a Launch Pad 2 as well. It has a lot more options that snap-on sometimes doesn't have. Saab being a car that it does not even support. Other tools have better access to modules than snap-on has. Unfortunate bc the machines cost a fortune. Just saying.

    Comment

    • phill57
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2007
      • 474

      #3
      Controller still missing with 15.2

      Just upgraded to the Verus Pro which has 15.2 software. Rescanned this vehicle and the rear HVAC is still not supported. Neither is the Auto ID, Network Scan or Network Code Clear options.

      I also noted that the ability to reset the fuel trims and alter open/closed loop status in functional tests is not available. I'm pretty sure this vehicle supports this but none of the Snap-On scanner we have will do it.

      Comment

      • maven
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2014
        • 269

        #4
        I may be wrong but I thought AutoID was only on Gm vehicles that use GMLAN, not Class2(your truck in question Class2), even the Tech2 doesnt offer autoid, detailed network wide dtc list, or network clear code.

        Comment

        • Witsend
          Banned
          • Nov 2012
          • 2942

          #5
          No GM All Module Scan ? WTF

          I was disappointed I was not able to autoscan (all module scan ) on a 2007 Chevy Silverado 5.3 with my DS 708. I had to select modules separately Old School Way from a list. Next was an old 98 Ford Ranger where it had the capability. Can't believe Henry Ford would have the capability a decade before GM, got to be a Chinese software hole I'm figuring. Maybe what software the China man couldn't copy from a Tech 2 they copied off a MT2500?

          Guy is bringing the 07 Silverado back today with a high idle issue, so I might have to do a throttle relearn or something.

          Comment

          • sbreland73
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 1076

            #6
            Originally posted by Witsend
            I was disappointed I was not able to autoscan (all module scan ) on a 2007 Chevy Silverado 5.3 with my DS 708. I had to select modules separately Old School Way from a list. Next was an old 98 Ford Ranger where it had the capability. Can't believe Henry Ford would have the capability a decade before GM, got to be a Chinese software hole I'm figuring. Maybe what software the China man couldn't copy from a Tech 2 they copied off a MT2500?
            Not the Chinaman's fault, but as Maven stated, GM.
            S. Breland

            Comment

            • Crusty
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2007
              • 2450

              #7
              My Tech-II won't auto ID a 2001 Venture Van but it WILL DO AN ALL MODULE SCAN for codes.
              Attached Files

              Comment

              • maven
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2014
                • 269

                #8
                Originally posted by Crusty
                My Tech-II won't auto ID a 2001 Venture Van but it WILL DO AN ALL MODULE SCAN for codes.
                Tech2 wont do an auto-ID on any vehicle. The Class2 DTC check youre doing there doesnt show codes. its just gives yes/no. Theres no detail list in the Tech2 like there is in GDS2, or in the SO scanners that support it. And even the DTC Check, that the Tech2 does do, can be agonizingly slow. The DTC scan and Class2 message monitor are very nice features of the factory tool though, even if they havent aged particularly well.(Tech2 is 20yrs old now)

                Comment

                • Crusty
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 2450

                  #9
                  Originally posted by maven
                  Tech2 wont do an auto-ID on any vehicle. The Class2 DTC check youre doing there doesnt show codes. its just gives yes/no. Theres no detail list in the Tech2 like there is in GDS2, or in the SO scanners that support it. And even the DTC Check, that the Tech2 does do, can be agonizingly slow. The DTC scan and Class2 message monitor are very nice features of the factory tool though, even if they havent aged particularly well.(Tech2 is 20yrs old now)
                  Yup but I DON'T have to go into each system and look for codes that aren't there-!!
                  THAT wastes a whole lot of time-!!!

                  Four and five years ago Snap-On scanners wouldn't even check whether there were any codes anywhere unless you went into each system one at a time.
                  AND....they didn't cover ALL the modules in the vehicle. One of the tool updates (not saying which tool-!! LOL), completely SCRAMBLED ALL THE MODULES in the vehicle and set communication codes in every one of them-!! Had to use the Tech-II to check and clear the codes that another tool CAUSED. The "other" tool couldn't even ACCESS two of the six modules in that particular vehicle-!!!

                  I was simply showing that ages ago, GM did in fact tell you whether there were codes in there that you could then go investigate, but you only had to do that if anything showed up in the code check.
                  As for the older FORDS showing codes, it is agonizingly slow while the machine tells you NOTHING except "this may take two minutes" while you twiddle your thumbs.....
                  THEN, after you've done that, you then have to run the Engine RUN code check while it says "this may take two minutes" and you twiddle your thumbs a second time-!!

                  Quit beating up on "The General"..... the other manufacturers have their significant faults too.

                  Comment

                  • maven
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2014
                    • 269

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Crusty
                    Yup but I DON'T have to go into each system and look for codes that aren't there-!!
                    THAT wastes a whole lot of time-!!!

                    Four and five years ago Snap-On scanners wouldn't even check whether there were any codes anywhere unless you went into each system one at a time.
                    AND....they didn't cover ALL the modules in the vehicle. One of the tool updates (not saying which tool-!! LOL), completely SCRAMBLED ALL THE MODULES in the vehicle and set communication codes in every one of them-!! Had to use the Tech-II to check and clear the codes that another tool CAUSED. The "other" tool couldn't even ACCESS two of the six modules in that particular vehicle-!!!

                    I was simply showing that ages ago, GM did in fact tell you whether there were codes in there that you could then go investigate, but you only had to do that if anything showed up in the code check.
                    As for the older FORDS showing codes, it is agonizingly slow while the machine tells you NOTHING except "this may take two minutes" while you twiddle your thumbs.....
                    THEN, after you've done that, you then have to run the Engine RUN code check while it says "this may take two minutes" and you twiddle your thumbs a second time-!!

                    Quit beating up on "The General"..... the other manufacturers have their significant faults too.
                    Oh, wow, yeah that would not make me happy either. I didnt really run into that since 5 years ago i wasnt using a current SO scanner, and I rarely reach for a SO product when Im working on GM vehicles. being that the General produces my bread and butter I use what they make available so i dont have to suffer those issues you were.

                    Dont think the last comment was strictly aimed at me, but I rarely pick on GM unless they absolutely deserve it. And that only happens when they affect my take home pay....so really only ever get disturbed when they do strange stuff to warranty times.

                    Comment

                    • phill57
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 474

                      #11
                      Snap-On versus OEM

                      Well I have been playing in this trade for over 40 years now and have watched the evolution of pretty much every scan tool offering there is out there. All the way from the MPSI GM scanner in a box, OTC Monitor 2000/4000 and the MT2500 red bricks. We, (Snap-On), will never have complete coverage if even on one manufacturer's vehicle. But it can always be better and we need to identify what is missing so hopefully Snap-On sees the need to improve coverage and capabilities. Yes the Tech2 did not ever auto-id a GM vehicle nor did it even remember the last vehicle you connected to. Graphing just plain sucks. In a lot of respects the Snap-On and even other aftermarket scanners do a much better job of viewing, graphing and retaining data etc. Mode 9 data has included the VIN from the PCM on most vehicles since around 2000 so some aftermarket scanners auto-id the protocol and query the vin and then decode it. For example on the above vehicle the Maxisys scanner auto-id's the vehicle and performs a network scan. Like I said the aftermarket tools can sometimes exceed OEM tools for convenience.

                      Comment

                      • maven
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2014
                        • 269

                        #12
                        Originally posted by phill57
                        Well I have been playing in this trade for over 40 years now and have watched the evolution of pretty much every scan tool offering there is out there. All the way from the MPSI GM scanner in a box, OTC Monitor 2000/4000 and the MT2500 red bricks. We, (Snap-On), will never have complete coverage if even on one manufacturer's vehicle. But it can always be better and we need to identify what is missing so hopefully Snap-On sees the need to improve coverage and capabilities. Yes the Tech2 did not ever auto-id a GM vehicle nor did it even remember the last vehicle you connected to. Graphing just plain sucks. In a lot of respects the Snap-On and even other aftermarket scanners do a much better job of viewing, graphing and retaining data etc. Mode 9 data has included the VIN from the PCM on most vehicles since around 2000 so some aftermarket scanners auto-id the protocol and query the vin and then decode it. For example on the above vehicle the Maxisys scanner auto-id's the vehicle and performs a network scan. Like I said the aftermarket tools can sometimes exceed OEM tools for convenience.
                        Oh absolutely, graphing on the MODIS is definitely MUCH better and much faster than with Tech2. (though storing a snapshot and viewing it on Tis2Web is very helpful, but its just as clunky/too many steps like SSC) If Ive got wheel speed codes I put away the Tech2 or MDI and grab the MODIS. New GM stuff GDS2 does graph well, but requires me to bring my laptop on the road, which I dont enjoy. Still saving my pennies for a nice Slate/waiting for GM to switch to Windows X and maybe get a Surface Pro.

                        Comment

                        • Crusty
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 2450

                          #13
                          Originally posted by maven
                          Oh, wow, yeah that would not make me happy either. I didnt really run into that since 5 years ago i wasnt using a current SO scanner, and I rarely reach for a SO product when Im working on GM vehicles. being that the General produces my bread and butter I use what they make available so i dont have to suffer those issues you were.

                          Dont think the last comment was strictly aimed at me, but I rarely pick on GM unless they absolutely deserve it. And that only happens when they affect my take home pay....so really only ever get disturbed when they do strange stuff to warranty times.
                          Naw, wasn't aimed at you Maven. Some people just like to "pick" on GM as if they're somehow "inferior" to other marque's when in fact there is more thought put into serviceability of vehicles AFTER they're built whereas some manufacturers are strictly concerned with the production line and serviceability isn't even on their radar.

                          As I said, they ALL have their good and bad points. Someone thinking that GM didn't have the ability to check ALL modules for codes up front just isn't correct. If there are no codes in certain modules then no need to waste time.

                          MUCH faster to check a GM for codes than a FORD for the last couple of decades. I don't like twiddling thumbs while the scanner displays a virtually blank screen saying "please wait"...... There are times when it freezes there and you wait, and wait, and wait...... VERY efficient-!!! NOT-!!!

                          Comment

                          • Crusty
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 2450

                            #14
                            Originally posted by phill57
                            Well I have been playing in this trade for over 40 years now and have watched the evolution of pretty much every scan tool offering there is out there. All the way from the MPSI GM scanner in a box, OTC Monitor 2000/4000 and the MT2500 red bricks. We, (Snap-On), will never have complete coverage if even on one manufacturer's vehicle. But it can always be better and we need to identify what is missing so hopefully Snap-On sees the need to improve coverage and capabilities. Yes the Tech2 did not ever auto-id a GM vehicle nor did it even remember the last vehicle you connected to. Graphing just plain sucks. In a lot of respects the Snap-On and even other aftermarket scanners do a much better job of viewing, graphing and retaining data etc. Mode 9 data has included the VIN from the PCM on most vehicles since around 2000 so some aftermarket scanners auto-id the protocol and query the vin and then decode it. For example on the above vehicle the Maxisys scanner auto-id's the vehicle and performs a network scan. Like I said the aftermarket tools can sometimes exceed OEM tools for convenience.
                            One of the BEST advantages Snap-On scanner have is the ability to GRAPH nicely (well, for the most part....others are aware of my rants regarding the graphing and glitches but they don't seem to think it's important enough to FIX-!!! DAMMIT-!! )

                            Graphing AND SHOP STREAM CONNECT together make for EXCELLENT DATA STORAGE AND REVIEW at a later date. Even weeks or months or years later-!!! All in a standard format that crosses virtually all the Snap-On scanners and scopes-!!! THIS is very much SUPERIOR to the majority of "OE" scanners and the "OE-SNOBS" really don't know what they're missing.

                            This is where we can see, HEY, everything was FINE here two years ago.... WHAT has changed-?? Part of the proverbial WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, HOW questions we all need to ask ourselves during ANY diagnosis.... and we have our own "known good" data already collected (if one is disciplined enough to gather that information in the first place)

                            I don't know if the Verus or Verus-Pro is doing this, but, the Solus-ULTRA will ONLY DISPLAY THE MOST RECENT 50 FILES so it behooves anyone to SAVE YOUR DATA COLLECTED ON YOUR PC-!!!

                            It would be a smart move for anyone with ANY Snap-On scan tool to copy their collected files to a second location and not rely on the machine to save it all and be certain that those files are retrievable-!!!

                            BACK-IT-UP-!!!!

                            Comment

                            • ToltecasChavez
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 408

                              #15
                              So which one is the best to use for GM cars? I mean as far as diagnosing. Tech 2 or GDS2???

                              Comment

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