Info needed in request

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  • Skip
    Super Moderator
    • Apr 2008
    • 605

    Info needed in request

    I am sure all of the requests posted here a valid. There is a very important piece of information that would be helpful. That is does the factory tool do it? If the the answer is no, then the vehicle does not support it and I doubt we can make it happen.
  • jeffreyg
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 166

    #2
    I agree I think this should be a STICKY post with a little more info. Maybe it could read something like this.


    INFO NEEDED IN REQUEST PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING


    Please supply us with YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, VIN of vehicle that made you put up this post.


    then tell us what you would like to see in future up-dates, a very important piece of information that would be helpful is does the factory tool support it? If the the answer is no, then the vehicle does not support it and I doubt we can make it happen.

    Comment

    • No-Start
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2006
      • 932

      #3
      I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the members here wouldn't have the necessary OE scanners to compare PIDs and features to the Snap On scanners.

      As well, I think it would be cool to not restrict the Snap On scanners to what the OE tools can do. Let's see if we can make it work better.

      No-Start.

      Comment

      • Skip
        Super Moderator
        • Apr 2008
        • 605

        #4
        If not the OE tool, then what tool does what you would like the SO to do? There are limitations inside the vehicles modules. I'm sure there are expections to the rule, but chances are, if the OE does not do it, an aftermarket one can not either.

        Comment

        • No-Start
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 932

          #5
          I prefer SO emulates the good parts of the OE tools. They should be emulating the coverage on all the modules, the PIDs and bi-directional that the OE tools offer. And if possible, the coding and customization features of the OE tools. And if I'm really lucky, they may even be able to some programming as well.

          However, there are some limitations that some OE tools have that I wouldn't like to see. Graphing is one, some of the OE tools are horrid. I would like to see the ability to pick custom data from multiple datalists, most OE tools won't allow that. And picking multiple bi-directional tests and being able to run them all at once. That would be cool. An example of that would be, with the NGS, you couldn't run multiple bi-directional tests. Way back then, some aftermarket scanners could do it (likek Ease, Diagtech). With the introduction of the IDS, you are able to though. That wasn't a limitation of the module, but the limitation of the tool, an OE tool in this instance. Another example would be custom data list on Nissans. It was said that "we" couldn't do it as the OE tool doesn't do it, however, the aftermarket Carman I scanner can.

          I'm sure I could probably come up with more examples, but that's enough to keep the programmers busy for now.



          No-Start.
          Last edited by No-Start; 03-31-2009, 12:59 AM.

          Comment

          • Crusty
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2007
            • 2450

            #6
            Originally posted by Skip
            If not the OE tool, then what tool does what you would like the SO to do? There are limitations inside the vehicles modules. I'm sure there are expections to the rule, but chances are, if the OE does not do it, an aftermarket one can not either.
            How in the H__L are we supposed to know what the factory tools will do?
            If we all could afford the factory tools for every manufacturer we wouldn't even need the SO scanners.
            We RELY on our tool & equipment manufacturers to provide us with complete, timely and accurate information which includes pids and Bi-directional capabilities. We plug in and YES we can get in there so we can tell the motoring public YES we can fix your car, you don't have to take it to the dealer.
            With all the financial resources SO has, why do we have to tell SO what the factory tools will do? Why doesn't SO buy the factory tools to check what they'll do and then provide us with accurate information and capabilities?
            Then they can step it up and truly provide the best.

            Comment

            • Skip
              Super Moderator
              • Apr 2008
              • 605

              #7
              So you want everything, every factory tool does, and everything they don't. I'll pass that along. Sorry I asked

              Comment

              • eddie8
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2008
                • 273

                #8
                Skip, I think snap on scanners have come along way since the brick was introduced back in 88. Are they perfect...no, but some of the factory tools aren't either. I have a collection of factory tools but I think my snap on scanner is easier to operate and easier to see. Its usually the tool of choice unless I have to have a factory tool to perform a special test that the snap on scanner doesn't have "yet". They will. You just have to be patient.

                Guys, If you think that the snap on scanner should do everything a factory scanner should do then snap on wouldn't sell scanners. Thats because nobody would buy one because nobody could afford it. Just think, a scan tool that has 15 factory scan tools built into one tool.....The average tech or shop for that reason couldn't afford it...and to be able to update that tool?

                Thats just my .02. I'm very happy with my snap on scanner. I just don't expect more from it than its willing to give.
                Edwin Hazzard
                Southeast Mobile Tech

                Comment

                • sdlindsey
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 347

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Crusty
                  How in the H__L are we supposed to know what the factory tools will do?
                  If we all could afford the factory tools for every manufacturer we wouldn't even need the SO scanners.
                  We RELY on our tool & equipment manufacturers to provide us with complete, timely and accurate information which includes pids and Bi-directional capabilities. We plug in and YES we can get in there so we can tell the motoring public YES we can fix your car, you don't have to take it to the dealer.
                  With all the financial resources SO has, why do we have to tell SO what the factory tools will do? Why doesn't SO buy the factory tools to check what they'll do and then provide us with accurate information and capabilities?
                  Then they can step it up and truly provide the best.
                  Crusty,

                  Snap On is not responsible for your ability to function in your chosen profession. Snap On is not responsible for the increasingly complicated technology in vehicles. Snap On is not responsible for the specialized tools and techniques required to diagnose and repair vehicles these days. Snap On is not responsible for how you conduct business or how you represent your capabilities to your customers.

                  I can certainly see where your base frustration stems from, but I think you are misguided in your venting. Every tool has its designed purpose, and when we attempt to use a tool for a different purpose it isn't going to perform as well or at all.

                  The Snap On products are not meant to be the 100% replacement for the factory tools. In some cases the Snap On products provide _better_ functionality than the factory tools... have you ever seen what laughably passes as graphing on a MasterTech? Some tools don't even have graphing.

                  Snap On products, for their coverages, are a good value. You are correct, if one had the resources one should probably buy all the factory tools. Given that purchasing all the factory tools for the vehicles that the Snap On products cover would cost significantly more than the Snap On products how can you expect a Snap On product to do everything the factory tools would do? That's just unrealistic.

                  Allow me to, now, be realistic: My response is a waste of time. My response is probably not even all that appropriate, but I just felt the need to comment.

                  One last piece of advice: It is possible, through these forums, to have the ears of people who can make changes and champion your cause. These people have no real obligation to do so and are doing it because they want to make a better product. Why poke those people in that very same ear?

                  Comment

                  • Crusty
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 2450

                    #10
                    Truth in advertising

                    When SO says their machine will record, save, & store the information for later review, I expect it to do so. They didn't say it will do that "sometimes".
                    When they say it will allow you to repair ABS brakes, they didn't say "except some functions" or "except some models" or "except X year"
                    When the troubleshooter tells you to compare wheel speed sensor pids, and it doesn't display the wheel speed sensor pids (yes the factory tool does), now what do you do if you don't have a factory tool?
                    When you look at the coolant sensor & the intake air sensor and the values show 26 degrees fahrenheit, yet the cold start CTS & IAT show 4600 degrees, something isn't right
                    When you look at the spedometer and the vehicle is doing 50-mph and the scanner says it's doing 38 mph, something isn't right (yes the vehicle was confirmed as being correct)
                    When the scanner shows one upstream oxygen sensor & one downstream oxygen sensor and you look under the vehicle and there are FOUR oxygen sensors......(on more than one make & year & model)....

                    What I was saying was we don't know the factory scan tool can perform a particular function because we don't have one for that manufacturer, IE Toyota, or BMW.
                    We rely on our equipment & tool manufacturers to tell us that a particular function is available AND WORKS PROPERLY, and not just "sometimes".
                    What gets me really mad is when they say, Yes our tool will do a cylinder balance test on a particular manufacturer the same as the factory tool, and then when you plug into one of those vehicles, the tool WON'T do what they said it would do.
                    When they say it will do A-B-C, I expect it to do A-B-C, and not just SOMETIMES.

                    SKIP: you've been doing a great job promptly replying to guys who are online all day. When you know the answer you're right there. When you don't, you find out & actually get back to people, Good Job.

                    If we don't have a factory tool that will activate the door locks, how do we know that that capability is available until we have a vehicle that needs us to perform that function, and if the SO tool doesn't, and the vehicle is in our bay, it's too late.

                    As for the brick... a report was called in 10 years ago on a Ford. Last summer the SO rep and the SO "trainer" were here and... guess what.... the trainer had to call it in again for the SP and Modis. Now 9 months later there is still no fix or even a call back. Yes, the tools should have done what they didn't do.

                    Have they improved... YES
                    Are they perfect....NO
                    And I don't expect them to be perfect
                    Just don't claim to do something & then not do it.
                    I can get the wrong information for free at the local coffee shop

                    Comment

                    • Manic Mechanic
                      Member
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 37

                      #11
                      Don't tell me no lies !!!

                      Originally posted by Skip
                      So you want everything, every factory tool does, and everything they don't. I'll pass that along. Sorry I asked
                      I as all other techs most likely want is the truth , Tell us what your scanner dose and have it do it, Not everything , Just have the scan tool do what they say it will do, No lies !!!!!!!!!
                      Manic Mechanic

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