OTC Genisys EVO new for $1095 wouldyou buy it?

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  • Wheel
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2007
    • 719

    #16
    Originally posted by Bob's Garage


    Hi Tim,

    I found a full version OTC EVO fairly up to date (2011 Asian and Dom) but only 2010 Euro. It can be had for $2195:

    That is the most current software on each. They don't update the euro every year. Their euro isn't anything to brag about.



    They sent me an e-mail with 10% off coupon. That gets it under 2 grand. Come with a TPMS tool, which I could use. Not daily (we don't do tires) though.

    While the tpms tool is no Bartec or ATEC, it is a nice little tool. If I am not mistaken, Snap On also offers this tool with the software to work on Verus or a PC.

    Anyways, it said they were 'Out of stock'. that may mean that the 2013 edition is coming? In that case we'll see if it is better to wait, I sent them an e-mail to see what the future brings.

    It'll actually be the 2012 edition - they're about a year behind.
    They should have their yearly update release very soon if it isn't already out. They finally grouped US, Asian, & airbag/abs coverage together, but sell Euro separate (it isn't automatically upgraded everytime like Snap On does - kudos to Snap On here.)


    At any rate, I would use it for a while to see what the advantages are before I posted anything...

    Merry Christmas!

    Thanks, Bob
    Like any tool, it has its good and bad points. I think overall you'll like a lot of its features if you get one.
    You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

    Comment

    • Wheel
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2007
      • 719

      #17
      Originally posted by Bob's Garage

      Hey Jay.

      OK, Here we go again. Since we are cool, I won't make this sound like an arguement, just my "explanation"...

      Your main focus appears to be GM evap and missing PIDs. I have seen some new GM data groups with a lot of new PIDS and truthfully, since most evap data is not dependent on speed there may be no need for a CDL, unless you are like me and eliminate all the PIDs you don't deem necessary. When I am focused on a small leak on GM Evap, I don't need fuel trim.

      I value pid availability as probably a#1 priority as a tie with reliability. It even takes precedence over bi directional controls and definitely takes precedence over more limited production car lines.

      We all want more complete coverage. I think the important question is
      what's the roadblock? I can think of three possibilities- Money? Lack of needed personnel? OEMs holding out? The next question is what can we do about it? Two of these three, the customer has less ability to contribute to the solution.
      If money is the road block, then we need to determine how much more rapid and complete hole filling is worth to the customer, and here Snap On needs to find a way to more aggressively (survey?) reach out to its scanner customers and actually ask. To address the problem currently, people must buy multiple scanners and maintain them. My point is the money is already being spent one way or another. If a company stepped up to the plate
      and included more advanced and complete coverage, even if it cost more, wouldn't it make the purchase and \ or maintenance of these other scanners less necessary? I, for one, don't mind paying more IF I get my money's worth.


      On the other hand, on other brands (I'm thinking Nissan for example), there has to be a road map as to what needs to be in the 2 seprated data groups on some models. And, then there are other models with 3 or even 4 data groups. I agree that a lot of work can be done on all brands in this area.

      There is a strong arguement for allowing all the data in one mega group for the user to make his own. But, this presents a new problem. If the tool cannot "remember" that group it will be a hassle rebuilding that group each time you need it.

      I think the advantages of this FAR outweigh any and all disadvantages.
      The two top reasons I am driven to use an alternate scan tool are hands down either the pid I seek not being available at all, or the pids
      I need to see together are not in the same data group. The more a person is driven to use an alternate scanner, the more likely he is to
      make it his new first grab, a fact not lost on him when one has to choose which scanner to update and which to wait on.


      To me, a well thought out data group is the best way to go.

      Because each mechanic has unique needs, why can't we have both ways?

      Until the day that my CDL can be remebered permanently.

      I would like to see Snap On pursue this in earnest. If OTC can do the great job on this they did on the Genisys, my money is on Snap On to be able to do it even better, if they will.

      Luckily the Verus & Verdict scanner data groups have made progress in that area. I have seen data groups saved while I "dip out" and check codes or readiness. This is huge, saves time and may be the perfect way to do data in my mind.

      As for the other platforms, I make a custom data list, I have to 'rebuild' it each time. That is time consuming.

      Of all the areas that cost the mechanic time needlessly, this is one of the worst, if not THE worst.

      AS far as testing and feedback is concerned, you have been heard. You worked directly with one of the developers on GM evap and through that, the FTP PID now has inches of H2O. Of course, it appears that you aren't posting much on that anymore. The other changes are coming, be patient. I also worked on GM ESBT EONV with the same guy. Of course "Evap season" is over....

      The screenshot thing is a pain, but not a big deal for me. Even wirelessly it takes 10-15 seconds for me to upload 10 Ultra screenshots. We have broadband cable.

      At any rate, Snap-on has progressed at a much more accelerated rate than any other company I have seen. The reason for all the new tools is that:

      #1 People do want touchscreens
      #2 People don't want want keys
      #3 People want faster processors
      #4 People like having a PC as part of thier diagnostics
      #5 Parts and pieces become obsolete.

      5 years is a long time now for a board or display to be manufactured. So, rather than modify the obsolete tool with new hardware, they redesign the tool into a better tool. Ex: Solus>Solus Pro>Solus Ultra. PC scanners add to the total number of SO tools because people wanted them.

      Gotta Run.


      Merry Christmas to you and yours in the "Great White North"

      Thanks, Bob






      Thought I'd elaborate a little here.
      You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

      Comment

      • Crusty
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2007
        • 2450

        #18
        Hey Bob
        Ya, we're cool.

        The screenshot thing is so slow, just cabled from the machine to my laptop can take each 751kb screen 10-15 seconds to save. It has to go from the SD card, to the Ultra, then through the cable to the PC. If it truly had a "faster" processor, it wouldn't take that long. Then to upload to this site, heck, I have to upload them individually, one at a time, otherwise the site goes into a lockup and hangs without uploading any of 'em and I have to go back and start over again. Now THAT'S time consuming-!!

        As for touch screens, ya, they can be an enhancement but add no true functionality.

        No personality keys is a benefit, but even that doesn't compensate for the delay when using a previous vehicle, you have to "rebuild" the vehicle starting with re-entering the year, then the make, then the model, etc, etc. when I go into previous vehicle and touch the screen.

        A PC platform as part of the diagnostic arsenal is a good thing, but why FOUR of 'em-??? (Verus, Verdict, Verus-2nd-gen, Verus-Ultra). BTW, there are reports of some very clever guys upgrading their own hardware with faster processors and SSDD. Why-? Because SnapOn DIDN'T put the faster processors in 'em in the first place.

        Parts & pieces become obsolete a whole lot sooner when the original build uses outdated components in the first place (so they can buy 'em and build 'em cheaper and still charge double what other manufacturers charge for their hardware)

        FIVE years-!!-??????
        7.3, 8.2, 8.4, 9.2, 9.4, 10.2, 10.4, 11.2, 11.4, 12.2, 12.4, now 13.2 is coming.........TWELVE builds, FIVE years....MISSING PIDS-!!!

        The first two things scan tools started giving us were codes and..........DATA........as in PIDS.......as in circa 1983.......THIRTY YEARS AGO........missing pids.......ANY missing pid is wrong, incorrect, incomplete, and AFAIC.....BROKEN.

        It's NOT just the EVAP pids I'm talking about either.

        There is only one data group they put the cooling fan relays in (it just happens to be the same group they have the EVAP data in). Even a grade school kid could see the common sense (or lack of it-!!) of having the Coolant Temperature pid in the same data group the cooling fan relay pids are in.

        Now, let's consider the AC High Side Pressure pid......(again this same data group-!!!!). Anyone who has worked on AC has seen cases where the hot radiator (coolant temperature) sitting less than an inch away from the AC condensor has affected the pressure inside the condensor which shows up as a higher than desired AC High Side pressure.
        A THIRD REASON to include the CTS pid in this data group-!!!

        NOPE-! Not there.

        Now, back to the EVAP data.........select a 2001 GM minivan....whether it's a Chev version or a Pontiac version, short wheelbase or long wheelbase........show me ANYWHERE in ANY data group where they are hiding the Fuel Tank Level PERCENT pid.

        Again, NOPE-! Not there.

        The issue is, which vehicle make and model is missing which pids-! What are the pids that the factory Nissan tool has-? You can't name them all and neither can I. So we RELY on our information gathering machine to do exactly that....gather information......only it can't gather the information because pids are missing.

        Anything after that, touch screens, no personality keys, faster processors, PC or not, new or old hardware or not, Bi-directional controls, flash-reprogramming, custom data list, is totally irrelevant to the machine NOT having all the data pids.

        Just can't get there from here.

        FIVE YEARS for the same issue....missing pids on ANY vehicle just shouldn't happen. And I stress ANY vehicle and ANY pid.

        It's so basic, it's overlooked because they think it's too simplistic.

        Ya, 2009 and 2010 are better from what I see but what about the vehicles that are in the prime age range (and there are lots of 'em on the road) for diagnosis & repair-?

        The datastreams were wrong, incomplete, innacurate twelve years ago, and they're still wrong, incomplete and innacurate.

        They have totally undermined the advantage SO has over just about every other scan tool I've seen, which is, the ability to Transfer, Save, Manage, Review, Annotate, Email and Print files from our data gathering machines by making use of SSC. It gets really annoying to see the same blurb across the top of this sites' page promoting the great advantage of combining SO equipment with SSC. And NO, it's NOT FREE either. Any capability and integration of programming we have paid for when we purchased the SO equipment in the first place. They actively promoted SSC as an advantage to spending our dollars with SO, only you can't do JACK when pids are missing.

        When it works properly, it's great. Yes, using the "edit" in SSC is very usefull (which DID work in previous versions and then somehow it got screwed up so restoring that previously available function isn't giving us anything new). That way, you can SAVE ALL the pids, review them all, and then cull out the pids you don't want to look at while in SSC, in effect making that very same Custom Data List you keep mentioning. The advantage to doing it in SSC is, the data isn't lost. It's still stored, just in case you missed something in another pid somewhere. You can then go back to "edit" and then INCLUDE the pid that was the clue to the ROOT CAUSE of the vehicles' problem and look at the cause and effect.

        Ya just can't do that if pids are missing. If SO tells me they cover a 2001 X-make, x-model, then do so. Same goes for a 1999. Same goes for a 2003, or any other year-make-model.

        SnapOn has the opportunity to put paid to the myth that the only competent scan tools are the Factory scan tools. If only they would deliver what they advertised. The advertising lsays we can do A-B-C functions, it doesn't say SOME A-B-C functions......

        If a complete data group is missing, it's broken. If a single pid is missing, the same principle applies.

        Go back and fix the previous vehicles where pids are missing. We see more of them in our bays than the 2013 model year vehicles. Instead they have just click-copy-pasted the same errors and ommisions back into the newest latest and greatest offerings.

        Guys keep asking about updates. They keep asking if a particular item has been "addressed" or not. SO should quit trying to sell me more of the same in a new covering., especially when they are well aware that things arn't quite right.

        To not go back and fix previous errors in software is just foot dragging, hoping they can fool people into believing the newest latest and greatest scan tool is the answer to the basic problem.

        NOPE-!!! Same old, same old.

        If ANY vehicle is "missing" a data group, it's broken. If ANY vehicle is "missing" even ONE pid, it's still broken because that one pid may very well be the pid that tells the tech what to check and test before he even orders a part.

        There are far too many posts, both here and on iATN where a guys says "I've replaced this and I've replace that but the car still isn't fixed". He!! I was taught to not toss parts at vehicles back in the 70's. With the incompleteness of the latest and greatest equipment, I can certainly understand how parts tossing happens. I just can't condone it.

        "Here's your new toaster, we'll sell you another one next year that MIGHT toast both sides, if we feel like it"

        It's not just GM EVAP pids. ANY pid missing is wrong. Let ME decide if the subject pid is relevant to the repair in front of me. Don't leave out temperature pids because the people in San Jose don't see EVAP Seasons....

        What other missing pids, on ANY given vehicle, have led guys to misdiagnose a vehicle, only because they don't know it should exist. Is it possible the repair would become obvious if the tech could see the values of a particular pid-?

        Missing IS broken-!
        FIX IT.

        Comment

        • Crusty
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2007
          • 2450

          #19
          Hey Wheel...

          I Agree with what you've said, especially this-!!!

          "I value pid availability as probably a#1 priority as a tie with reliability. It even takes precedence over bi directional controls and definitely takes precedence over more limited production car lines.

          We all want more complete coverage. I think the important question is
          what's the roadblock? I can think of three possibilities- Money? Lack of needed personnel?"


          Pid availability and reliability FIRST. Without those two things, everything else is superfluous.

          As for what's the roadblock, money and lack of personnel sure shouldn't be-!!

          Check out Reuters.......if you take a mere $100,000 from Mr Pinchuks' 8-MILLION per year, and $100,000 from Mr Wards' 4-MILLION per year, they could hire four more bodies at $50,000 a year salary.

          A hundred grand from EIGHT and FOUR MILLIONS, yes MILLIONS, would hardly be missed at that pay scale.

          If they made their scan tools bullet proof, as in complete, reliable and accurate, there wouldn't be any need for anyone to consider ANOTHER scan tool.

          Oh my goodness, what am I saying-!!! Then they wouldn't be able to FLOG OFF the next newest and latest and greatest scan tool next year-!!!

          Hey Bob....as for being "patient"......isn't FIVE YEARS long enough for them to include relevant pids in the same data group?

          I would betcha dollars to donuts there are more 2002 GM's in our bays than 2002 Volvos or Jags......
          Europe is probably the other way around. Asia, and possibly Australia and New-Zealand may have more Asian vehicles than Fords or GM's.

          I hate to use the expression an arrogant SOB on iATN used regarding aftermarket scan tools but sometimes it fits......."tinkertoys"......because they're not complete and reliable.

          An aftermarket scan tool, and several of them, is necessary.

          Purchasing every OE scan tool and maintaining all those OE scan tools, along with their website access (which is necessary to even keep 'em running) sure isn't a viable alternative.

          OTC is one option. Autel is another. AE is another.
          We SHOULDN'T have to consider those if SO actually delivered all the pids and reliability along with the necessary other controls.
          Bi-directional controls for testing is a third necessity. Then comes coding and programming (GM driver door modules come to mind).

          Touch screens and wi-fi don't actually perform any necessary functions when the FIRST requirements in a scan tool are considered. Some people just think they're "cool" to have.

          Comment

          • sandt38
            Senior Member
            • May 2012
            • 187

            #20
            Originally posted by Bob's Garage
            One of my local Franchise Parts suppliers is offering an OTC EVO FOR $1095. These are refurbished.

            Part # OTC387OBD2R11 (Pep Boys)

            It appears to be a kit. Includes Euro & Asian. Would you buy it as a Back-up or supplemental tool?

            I am tempted, if for no other reason to bolster my Scan tool collection.

            Also, it may help Snap-on to to say "I found these data PIDs on OTC, We need these on Snap-on" or "We need need these functional tests that SO does not offer".

            I welcome any opinions.


            Thanks, Bob
            Bob, FWIW I have spent quite some time with a Genesis and a bit with the Evo. A very good friend of mine has an Evo he bought a few months back, and he and his co-workers (which used to be my co-workers as well) who all have various versions of the Genesis/Evo come to me frequently to use my Verus and Maxidas units. It is OK as a filler, but frankly I have been unimpressed with the OTC units I have played with (all the way back to the Enhanced 2000). IMO where I see your scan tool list lacking a better filler might be a Maxidas. While it does have several shortcomings, I think it is a much better tool then the Evo.

            Comment

            • Bob's Garage
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2007
              • 3257

              #21
              Originally posted by sandt38
              Bob, FWIW I have spent quite some time with a Genesis and a bit with the Evo. A very good friend of mine has an Evo he bought a few months back, and he and his co-workers (which used to be my co-workers as well) who all have various versions of the Genesis/Evo come to me frequently to use my Verus and Maxidas units. It is OK as a filler, but frankly I have been unimpressed with the OTC units I have played with (all the way back to the Enhanced 2000). IMO where I see your scan tool list lacking a better filler might be a Maxidas. While it does have several shortcomings, I think it is a much better tool then the Evo.
              I guess I did not put the MaxiDAS in my list of tools. I do own one and have been amazed and disappointed by it at the same time. Amazed by what it can do and the coverage is great. The disappointing part is the graphing and vehicle ID portion. The graphing is so bad that it must have been a last minute add on. Also I suspect the architects of the MaxiDAS DS 708 don't fully understand the value of accurate graphing. That whole auto averaging and undjustable sweep or timebase is EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING.

              So, I ordered the EVO 5.0 Kit with the TPMS kit for a whopping $1999 new. As far as pricing I thought it was reasonable. As I may have said before, I have the best of what Snap-on has to offer and I am very happy with the Verus Pro and the Solus Ultra. I have the older SO scanners too, but I try to use the newer stuff.

              This the first OTC scanner I will have ever owned so it has to do well or...

              Thanks, Bob





              Comment

              • Bob's Garage
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2007
                • 3257

                #22
                Steve's opinions answered.

                OTC Vs. Snap on

                Originally posted by Steve6911
                Bob,

                Hi Steve! Sorry I didn't get back with you, several distractions along the way... So let's break it down:

                Back in 2003 my boss deceided to "upgrade" from the MTG2500 that the shop had. He choose the Mac Mentor (mostly due to the price). At a Mac tool show in the area the district rep was a master at making this tool look like it could do everything. After 3 months of using this I purchased my Modis. Sometimes the Mentor could do things that my Modis couldn't, car lines that S.O. didn't support etc, but not too many.
                The MAC Mentor, kind of like a Genysis, only red, right? Back in those days it did seem more advanced compared to the MTG2500. I used one and said "wow, this thing is cool" and then, it locked up on me. I grabbed my MT2500 and finished the job because it was taking too damn long to reboot.

                Yes they were the first between the two that had a Keyless cable
                ,

                Big plus, no keys, seemed like they were on top of thier game (at least due to that)


                but it was badly flawed. 2001-2003 Toyota Camry's come to mind, hit read codes and it would clear them!
                WTF? Kind of a diagnostic nightmare, eh?

                Called their tech line and was told I was the only one to report this,
                Hmmm... Deny, deny, deny, politics in the OTC corporate world...

                a quick look on iATN showed it had been a problem since the cable came out, it was reported by many and took YEARS to correct! SSC blows away OTC's software which they charged for, not sure if they still do
                .

                Well, I hope I don't get it updated for a while as I am only evaluating it for now. If it turns out to be a good tool, I will update it.


                My boss purchased a second one (again due to price) it is faster but no better on coverage, I can't speak about the EVO as I have never used it.
                Screw me once, shame on you, Screw me twice shame on me! The EVO should be faster, at least that what I hear. I'll let you know...

                I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I would save my money and put it toward purchasing a new Autel Maxipad when the one you currently have goes down.It has MUCH better coverage and bi-directional controls then the OTC, and in my opinion a better hole filler.
                Steve



                Steve it is true, a "MaxiPAD" kindof fills the holes... at least covers them...

                Hey? What? I didn't say anything... I just quoted Steve... OK, OK, he meant "Maxi DAS"!
                Last edited by Bob's Garage; 12-28-2012, 07:26 AM.

                Comment

                • Bob's Garage
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 3257

                  #23
                  Hi Eddie,

                  Originally posted by eddiesverus
                  Yes, I would buy it. But I already own one, I have my Verus that I use at work, and my Mac Mentor Pro I use on the go. Many things I like about the Mac but also many things I like about the Verus. Having both will definitely fill up those gaps.
                  Yeah Eddie, Filling gaps, thats what I was thinking. Plus, I got it new for a steal, so If I didn't like it, I could sell it for a profit.

                  How old is your Mentor Pro? Is it similar to the EVO 5.0 ?

                  I'll keep you informed.

                  Thanks, Bob

                  Comment

                  • Crusty
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 2450

                    #24
                    Interesting you should comment on this....

                    ------------
                    Quote:
                    Called their tech line and was told I was the only one to report this,

                    Hmmm... Deny, deny, deny, politics in the corporate world...
                    ------------

                    SnapOn did EXACTLY the same thing, kept it up for over a year, I stopped dialing the 1-800-STALL line, the same issues are STILL there to this day.

                    And they've done it to other guys several times since then (iATN)

                    If a corporate entity ever comes up with true ethics, they might just take the world by storm.

                    Then we wouldn't have to fill in holes with Autel, OTC, AE, etc, etc

                    Comment

                    • Crusty
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 2450

                      #25
                      This is DIRECTLY pertinent and it's right here on this site in the Solus-Solus-pro user group.
                      It's regarding MISSING PIDS and MISSING fan relay commands so the tech can't follow the factory prescribed diagnostic testing sequence. It's on a 2004 Ford, which illustrates that it's not just the GM evap i'm fixated on.



                      The post in there today says;
                      Witsend -- "I Think if Snap On wants to keep it's customers from filling those software holes in with a New Chinese Scanner versus paying for updates to fill holes in earlier releases . Folk that purchase software good up to 2010 should get any holes that ever existed in their software up to 2010 filled in automatically"

                      Pretty much sums up what I've been saying for five years.
                      Missing IS Broken

                      Comment

                      • Wheel
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 719

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Crusty
                        Hey Wheel...

                        I Agree with what you've said, especially this-!!!

                        "I value pid availability as probably a#1 priority as a tie with reliability. It even takes precedence over bi directional controls and definitely takes precedence over more limited production car lines.

                        We all want more complete coverage. I think the important question is
                        what's the roadblock? I can think of three possibilities- Money? Lack of needed personnel?"


                        Pid availability and reliability FIRST. Without those two things, everything else is superfluous.

                        Lack of these two things cause most of the legitimate complaints.

                        As for what's the roadblock, money and lack of personnel sure shouldn't be-!!

                        Check out Reuters.......if you take a mere $100,000 from Mr Pinchuks' 8-MILLION per year, and $100,000 from Mr Wards' 4-MILLION per year, they could hire four more bodies at $50,000 a year salary.

                        A hundred grand from EIGHT and FOUR MILLIONS, yes MILLIONS, would hardly be missed at that pay scale.

                        I mentioned only the 3 roadblocks there was any kind of excuse for.
                        There's actually a 4th and you touched on it -(the can't-be-wrong, my -way-or-the-highway, 3-piece-suit-types, whose-teenage-daughters- actually-know-more-about-working-on-cars-than-they-do, well-above the-paygrade-of-the-guys-from-Snap On-who-help-us-here) people who dictate what does and does not go into the tools. I think these are the REAL roadblock. If they had any semblance of what was going on in the real world and had any sense of logic, we'd have had all these things long ago. I feel those who design and test these things actually get it - you can at least reason with them - I even feel they are as frustrated as we are, but can't say much because of their situation.


                        If they made their scan tools bullet proof, as in complete, reliable and accurate, there wouldn't be any need for anyone to consider ANOTHER scan tool.

                        Oh my goodness, what am I saying-!!! Then they wouldn't be able to FLOG OFF the next newest and latest and greatest scan tool next year-!!!

                        Hey Bob....as for being "patient"......isn't FIVE YEARS long enough for them to include relevant pids in the same data group?

                        Actually, I still maintain they need to include a super group of ALL I repeat ALL the data available from a given controller and let the user decide what he needs to see together.

                        I would betcha dollars to donuts there are more 2002 GM's in our bays than 2002 Volvos or Jags......

                        I'd bet dollars to donuts it'd be more 2002 GM's than ALL volvos, jags, and land Rovers put together.

                        Europe is probably the other way around. Asia, and possibly Australia and New-Zealand may have more Asian vehicles than Fords or GM's.

                        I hate to use the expression an arrogant SOB on iATN used regarding aftermarket scan tools but sometimes it fits......."tinkertoys"......because they're not complete and reliable.

                        I know the guy you're talking about - an accurate description in my opinion.

                        An aftermarket scan tool, and several of them, is necessary.

                        Purchasing every OE scan tool and maintaining all those OE scan tools, along with their website access (which is necessary to even keep 'em running) sure isn't a viable alternative.

                        The scan tool subscription thing is why I want no part of them. I doubt that policy would stand up to a properly coordinated lawsuit. If it could, what would stop auto makers from timing out the software on your car?
                        A definite slippery slope and assault on freedom in my opinion.


                        OTC is one option. Autel is another. AE is another.
                        We SHOULDN'T have to consider those if SO actually delivered all the pids and reliability along with the necessary other controls.
                        Bi-directional controls for testing is a third necessity. Then comes coding and programming (GM driver door modules come to mind).

                        That is the point I'm trying to make. Let me restate it a different way
                        for anyone who does not yet understand:

                        Snap On: If you gave us the coverage and features we have to buy these other scanners to get, we could be spending this extra money with you instead - hey, we're spending the money, anyway !!!

                        Snap On customer: If Snap On gave you the coverage IN A RELIABLE SCANNER that you are having to buy these other scanners to get, would you be willing to spend the money you would have otherwise spent on these other scanners with Snap On? Like I said in the question to Snap On, you are spending the money anyway.


                        Touch screens and wi-fi don't actually perform any necessary functions when the FIRST requirements in a scan tool are considered. Some people just think they're "cool" to have.

                        I don't oppose these features and others because in the right circumstances they really speed things up, but the basics shouldn't be forgotten, either.
                        Sorry for the delay in answering ya.
                        You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

                        Comment

                        • Crusty
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 2450

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Wheel
                          Sorry for the delay in answering ya.
                          I'm not opposed to other "features" but how about getting the BASICS right.

                          ""Pid availability and reliability FIRST. Without those two things, everything else is superfluous.""

                          As you said-!!!

                          "Lack of these two things cause most of the legitimate complaints."
                          As for spending more money for SnapOn to get things right, we've already paid a premium for the SnapOn equipment in the first place!!! And the basics are still not correct.

                          "--ALL I repeat ALL the data available --- IN A RELIABLE SCANNER "
                          We could read codes with SES lights or Check-Engine light flashing....and even count codes on Asian vehicles by watching the light on the side of the controller.

                          What did the first scan tool give us ???

                          PIDS AND DATA VALUES !!!

                          Missing pids.......I'd like the first basic function of a scan tool to be corrected.
                          Without the pids displaying (preferably in the proper same scale as the factory manual-!!!! Inches of H2O-!!!) ya don't even know if you need to go farther and initiate bi-directional functions.

                          The touch screens and Wi-Fi, Information database, internet access, etc etc etc are without purpose unless we can see the data the pids are showing us.

                          There is only one reason they don't fix previous errors and omissions.......they don't WANT to.
                          Last edited by Crusty; 01-06-2013, 06:32 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Bob's Garage
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 3257

                            #28
                            OTC scan tool, remember?

                            Crusty,

                            Are you still at it?

                            I forgot what my thread was about!

                            Oh yeah, the OTC scanner. Seems like I'm getting screwed around by NTX tools right now. I ordered the kit with the TPMS tool. It seems they hadn't processed my order, a week after I ordered it.

                            Something about the holiday BS. Also, something about wanting to check my AMEX card? They promised it to me next day as it was in the Chicago warehouse. He was going to rush the order. They haven't even run my card yet...

                            I told him they should just run the d@mn card and be done with it. They seemed to have lost track of my order. Now, I am hearing of complaints on that site.

                            Grrrrr

                            Bob

                            Comment

                            • Crusty
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 2450

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Bob's Garage
                              Crusty,

                              Are you still at it?

                              I forgot what my thread was about!

                              Oh yeah, the OTC scanner. Seems like I'm getting screwed around by NTX tools right now. I ordered the kit with the TPMS tool. It seems they hadn't processed my order, a week after I ordered it.

                              Something about the holiday BS. Also, something about wanting to check my AMEX card? They promised it to me next day as it was in the Chicago warehouse. He was going to rush the order. They haven't even run my card yet...

                              I told him they should just run the d@mn card and be done with it. They seemed to have lost track of my order. Now, I am hearing of complaints on that site.

                              Grrrrr

                              Bob
                              Hi Bob
                              Yup...STILL at it.....but I wouldn't have to, and you wouldn't have to deal with a bunch of tools at a tool warehouse, if the SnapOn tools just did what they were supposed to do in the first place.

                              Here's a 2000 Intrigue missing ECT, IAT & Engine run time

                              A month ago I checked 5 GM vehicles from 2000 to 2005.
                              FOUR out of the 5 vehicles had pids missing......EIGHTY PERCENT of the 5 vehicles in that model year range are missing pids.

                              Wouldn't hafta check out and spend money on other scan tools if the SnapOn stuff was correct. The correct pids and the pids in specific data groups was PUBLISHED and readily available to anyone who cared to look Twelve Years Ago.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                              • sandt38
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2012
                                • 187

                                #30
                                Is there such a thing as a perfect scan tool?

                                Apparently I missed that memo.

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