Direct Inject Cleaning solutions

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  • greasybob
    Senior Member
    • May 2008
    • 1590

    #16
    What tool/equipment set up do you use for blasting ?
    Last edited by greasybob; 03-09-2019, 03:13 PM.

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    • Witsend
      Banned
      • Nov 2012
      • 2942

      #17
      Who would have thought the Ole Rotunda 014-00975 (walnut media) carbon blaster and boroscope kit from the early nineties might have relevance today.
      I remember Ford TSB 93-12-6. The detergents in the fuel along with the natural ability of the gasoline anyway to act as a sort of cleaning solvent spraying on back of valves helped clean the oil mist off the back of the hot intake valves before turning into tar, then further baking into hard carbon deposits. IMO Lower tier gasoline use was not actually the root cause of the carbon build up, IMO it's basically sh@tty engines with extended oil change intervals getting a lot of blowby and oily mist from the crankcase ventilation system baking on to the back of the intake valves. Seemed to me I was able to "Have at it " on the back of the intake valves seated with intake manifold removed using screwdrivers some assorted dental pick set , blow nozzle , and throttle body, and cleaned the carbon off intake valves of an 08 Passat Turbo fine
      Attached Files

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      • Crusty
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2007
        • 2450

        #18
        That kind of carbon buildup on the valves has been around since before the days that PCV systems even existed (circa mid 60's). It occurred back in the days of points & condensers & carburetors.
        The fuel injection systems and the PCV systems don't cause it. The TBI & Port injection systems lasted longer, the problem arose because valve jobs & engine rebuilds didn't happen as often like they did back then (an engine lasting longer than 60,000 or 80,000 miles was rare), the better fuel quality (as early as 1988....long before Top-Tier fuels) helped keep the backside of the valves clean.
        Now with GDI that strategy doesn't keep the valves clean anymore because the fuel doesn't get there.
        Things come full circle.
        The GDI engines are seeing this kind of problem around 60,000 miles....again....
        The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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        • Glide
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2015
          • 303

          #19
          Originally posted by greasybob
          What tool/equipment set up do you use for blasting ?
          I bought mine at princess auto(similar to harbour freight) and have modified it as required for different engines.I also had to make an adapter for my shopvac.In time something better will come along,but this works for now.

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          • Steve6911
            Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 2168

            #20
            Originally posted by Matt
            I'm seeing some GM 3.6L, 125,000+ miles, coming in with P0300s. Spark plugs and coils are good so I'm just wondering about misfires at idle due to this carbon build up.

            This came up on another forum I belong to, I'm sure GM's are not as critical as Euro-junk but its a thought.



            Correct spark plugs and correct torque are needed for proper spark plug indexing. Another member of the forum stated that incorrect indexing can lead to the plug actually being eroded by the high pressure fuel because the injector can spray directly onto the tip of the plug.
            Just another thought.

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            • Witsend
              Banned
              • Nov 2012
              • 2942

              #21
              Correct spark plugs and correct torque are needed for proper spark plug indexing. Another member of the forum stated that incorrect indexing can lead to the plug actually being eroded by the high pressure fuel because the injector can spray directly onto the tip of the plug.
              Just another thought.
              I can remember years ago on a Honda 750 putting a paint mark on the spark plug metal shell lined up where the metal electrode attaches , and the idea was after torquing down the sparkplugs, I did not want to have incoming air fuel blocked by the back of the ground electrodes.
              I also remember F'N up and setting the valve lash in thousandths of an inch instead of hundredths of mm and wondering why the engine sounded noisier than normal

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              • Steve6911
                Moderator
                • Feb 2007
                • 2168

                #22
                I just got an email from ATS about their new GDI carbon cleaning machine. Not sure of the cost, being it’s from ATS I’m sure it’s not cheap but their product are always good

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                • Matt
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 328

                  #23
                  I checked out ATS's website and they posted an msrp of $4895 for that unit. My shop budget wouldn't include that even if you moved the decimal point over one notch!

                  Comment

                  • Witsend
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2012
                    • 2942

                    #24
                    I checked out ATS's website and they posted an msrp of $4895 for that unit. My shop budget wouldn't include that even if you moved the decimal point over one notch!
                    Sounds like the latest Dealership Snake Oil Flush machine service customers will have to learn to Just say No to. I wonder if they have little plastic washers in the bottom of the petroleum distillates for techs to fish out and get a quarter for each one

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                    • Steve6911
                      Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 2168

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Matt
                      I checked out ATS's website and they posted an msrp of $4895 for that unit. My shop budget wouldn't include that even if you moved the decimal point over one notch!
                      Yeah I checked out the price after posting the link. My shop is not buying it either, price is very steep but like I said their products are always very good. I've looked at a lot of these machines and haven't seen one that worked well yet, but being its from ATS I'm sure this one works.

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                      • greasybob
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2008
                        • 1590

                        #26
                        If I read the web site correctly the machine is $2400. The $4800 includes 12 cases of the chemicals, enough to do 48 vehicles at $50 a piece. https://atschemicals.com/calculator.html

                        I bought the Blue Point injector cleaner years ago. An injection service can be a tough sell as regular maintenance unless your sure it's going to solve a driveability problem and give the customer a noticeable improvement in performance.

                        I would also be a bit concerned about what codes get set during the cleaning process and what adaptives need to be relearned, fuel composition, fuel trim, etc.

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                        • Witsend
                          Banned
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 2942

                          #27
                          Think if it were my own Turd I would remove the intake manifold and clean the valves , and while the intake is out figure out the best place to stategically drill and tap the runners to thread in and JB weld little vacuum ports at an angle that I could pop off rubber caps and take a look in with a small diameter sewer camera every 30K. Wonder if Suzie Homemaker ever thought of strategic shot of EZ off oven cleaner on the back of the valves to let it soak overnight to soften the deposits , followed by sea foam, then change oil and filter , spark plugs, then a gallon of pure lacquer thinner in the tank to 10 gallons of gas for a quick Cat fix per Scotty K. Maybe Dorman will sell aftermarket intake manifolds with a removable valve port access plates with gaskets

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                          • Matt
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 328

                            #28
                            Looks like you could get a basic walnut blasting unit and 20 lb of walnut shells for around $300, which is getting closer to my small budget. Anybody have concerns about residual walnut shells stuck in the combustion chamber causing damage?

                            Comment

                            • Witsend
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 2942

                              #29
                              Looks like you could get a basic walnut blasting unit and 20 lb of walnut shells for around $300, which is getting closer to my small budget. Anybody have concerns about residual walnut shells stuck in the combustion chamber causing damage?
                              When you perform the procedure you do one cylinder at a time on their compression strokes with the plugs removed. If you get the piston to sweet spot at TDC with the rod's big end with no deviation to the left or right, removing the wrench from the crank pulley bolt before putting compressed air to the cylinder , the piston will generally stay at TDC without being forced to bottom, and what little air leakage gets past the valves should prevent the spent media from getting past while working.

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                              • Glide
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2015
                                • 303

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Matt
                                Looks like you could get a basic walnut blasting unit and 20 lb of walnut shells for around $300, which is getting closer to my small budget. Anybody have concerns about residual walnut shells stuck in the combustion chamber causing damage?
                                The point of using walnut shells is that if a small amount gets in the cylinder it shouldn't cause damage. I take the time to make sure the valves are closed and made an adapter for my shopvac that seals tightly over the intake port to suck out the debris.

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