Souls Edge 15.2 - cannot run injector balance test

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  • Glide
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 303

    #16
    Originally posted by Crusty
    I'd suggest pulling out the old faithfull ST-125 spark tester before "swapping" spark plugs.....
    Really? You've found to test a spark Plug with a spark Tester?
    Without even removing the spark plug from the engine?

    Comment

    • Crusty
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2007
      • 2450

      #17
      Originally posted by Glide
      Really? You've found to test a spark Plug with a spark Tester?
      Without even removing the spark plug from the engine?
      Swapping plugs, swapping coils, swapping wires, swapping injectors, swapping, swapping, swapping......severe waste of time and a variation on parts tossing.
      Just use the ST-125 the way it was designed to be used, and you KNOW the voltage is getting TO the plug.
      It's a SPARK tester, not a plug tester.
      If a cylinder isn't firing, it ISN'T because of lack of electrical energy getting to the plug. It's something else. Test for it.
      It could be the plug itself, but it could be a lot of other things.
      A problem with one plug COULD be caused by the OPPOSITE paired plug. Use the ST-125 the way it's designed to eliminates a LOT of guessing.
      If the coil pack will fire the ST-125 consistently on all cylinders why would one replace the coil pack.....

      Comment

      • Pythagorous
        Junior Member
        • Mar 2017
        • 10

        #18
        Originally posted by Glide
        So you're saying that across 2-5 it's 9700 and 1-4,3-6 are 10,200? I'd forgotten that they changed to the one piece module that long ago.
        The reason for the spread in the resistance spec is that resistance is temperature dependant. As temp goes up so does resistance.A coil with low output will normally read lower resistance,a coil with a dead wire or spark plug on it will normally read higher.
        If swapping the spark plugs makes no difference,check compression and compare to a good cylinder.If that's OK it's gotta be the coil pack.In the end that's the main connection between 2-5.
        Sorry, it seems that I wasn't clear about what I did... the 9,700Ω reading was from the coils in the new ICM, the 10,200Ω readings were from the original ICM. I had tested the original ICM with the Pico scope but I still wasn't sure about it's integrity, the secondary waveforms looked good to me as did the primary current ramps but I finally caved and bought a new one against my better judgement. And, it didn't make any difference, no surprise there.

        I will test the compression soon, I had a couple of cars that I needed to take care of first; one is done the second one is waiting on parts now.

        Gary

        Comment

        • Pythagorous
          Junior Member
          • Mar 2017
          • 10

          #19
          I will test the coil output with the spark tester I have; it's adjustable and I can see what kind of output I am getting. I had done a cylinder drop test previously with a test light and I know it's throwing spark about 1.5" but it would be good to have an actual number on the voltage.

          I forgot to mention in my previous post that I swapped #2 and #5 plug, my wife drove to work and back in it, about a 20 mile drive, there was one misfire, only one, the inconsistencies in this thing is staggering. I could see #2 improving or maybe #2 and #5 improving, but the entire engine suddenly goes from 50 to 700 misfire in a trip of that length to 1... I don't buy it. I'm gonna drive it to work again soon and see what it does. I know it is still misfiring, I can feel it. The misfire monitor is just not picking it up.

          As I said in a previous post, when it is misfiring, and the monitor is picking it up so you can really keep an eye on it, all you have to do is tip the throttle open, raise the rpm as little as possible and the fuel cell changes because the ECM knows it's no longer at idle, and all the misfires stop. I've done this over and over, the rpm goes from like 800 to maybe 1,000 and that is all it takes. It's looking more and more likely that the ECM is either bad or it's software is corrupted.

          Thank you guys for the help,
          Gary
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • Witsend
            Banned
            • Nov 2012
            • 2942

            #20
            EGR valve not seating ?

            Comment

            • Alberson
              Junior Member
              • Mar 2017
              • 2

              #21
              Austin Alberson

              So Ive been reading through this whole thread and seems to me it looks like everyone has skipped all of the basics. Sometimes in this kind of situation its best to start all over again and just forget everything you have done. First: When does misfire occur? Cold start idle only? Hot idle only? Driving down road under no load with light acceleration? Driving down road under no load with heavy acceleration? Driving down road under heavy load with light acceleration? Driving down road under heavy load with hard acceleration?

              Have you checked the air filter to see if its very dirty or restricted? If so check MAF readings. Should be between 3-8 grams per second. Also check IAT (should ususally be higher than ambiant air temp if engine is hot. Those are two different sensors in different locations). IAT is built into the MAF. Also check short and long term fuel trims. They should stay between -10 and +10 when fuel system is in closed loop. If any of those readings are out of range clean or replace MAF sensor. Most all of your snap on scanners now have a guided component test to determine if the MAF sensor is containmented.

              Check fuel pressure at idle and while driving down the road. Restricted fuel filter or weak pump can cause misfires along with out of range fuel trims. Also pull a fuel sample to determine if it has water in it or if e85 put in.

              Check current ramping of fuel injector of misfiring cylinder. This will show a sticking pintle in the injector. Perform fuel injector cleaning and recheck current ramping. If still bad replace injector. Fuel injector balance test will show the same results as current ramping.

              Another quick thing is to inspect plug wires. Look if the wires are touching each other and have white marks at the place they are touching. Could be arching out between each other. If suspected mix up a mixture of 50/50 water and rubbing alcohol and spray they wires. Do not touch the vehicle while spraying it. Could give ya a lil tingle.

              If all checks ok swap plugs to see if misfire moves. If not time to move into more exciting things. Pull a compression check. If check ok, which it should, do a valve leak down test. BEING VERY VERY CAREFULL use a screwdriver and insert into spark plug hole and turn crank over by hand until that piston reachs TDC. Attach shop air to cylinder and slowly increase while watching that the crankshaft doesnt turn. Remove or hold open throttle blade and listen into exhaust system for escaping air. A VERY small amount is ok. Check another cylinder to compare with. If a valve is leaking check valve spring to see if its broken. Using a bore scope see if valve seating surface is burnt. If not burnt Sometimes running GM fuel injector cleaner into intake to clean carbon off valve will resolve issue.

              In some rare cases I have seen the drive belt cause a misfire due to misalignment of an acc or a bad pulley or acc itself. Also the harmonic balancer can do this.

              Gm does say when using the tech 2 viewing the misfire graphic to ignore random misfires AT IDLE ONLY.

              Also try preforming a cam crank sync in the service function if all else fails.

              One of these items should resolve your issue. Good Luck

              Comment

              • Glide
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2015
                • 303

                #22
                Originally posted by Pythagorous
                I will test the coil output with the spark tester I have; it's adjustable and I can see what kind of output I am getting. I had done a cylinder drop test previously with a test light and I know it's throwing spark about 1.5" but it would be good to have an actual number on the voltage.

                I forgot to mention in my previous post that I swapped #2 and #5 plug, my wife drove to work and back in it, about a 20 mile drive, there was one misfire, only one, the inconsistencies in this thing is staggering. I could see #2 improving or maybe #2 and #5 improving, but the entire engine suddenly goes from 50 to 700 misfire in a trip of that length to 1... I don't buy it. I'm gonna drive it to work again soon and see what it does. I know it is still misfiring, I can feel it. The misfire monitor is just not picking it up.

                As I said in a previous post, when it is misfiring, and the monitor is picking it up so you can really keep an eye on it, all you have to do is tip the throttle open, raise the rpm as little as possible and the fuel cell changes because the ECM knows it's no longer at idle, and all the misfires stop. I've done this over and over, the rpm goes from like 800 to maybe 1,000 and that is all it takes. It's looking more and more likely that the ECM is either bad or it's software is corrupted.

                Thank you guys for the help,
                Gary
                You are sure that there is no carbon track on the spark plug that was in #2 cylinder? It seems suspicious that swapping 2 and 4 made some difference.
                It's not the ECM,no way
                The one thing that I neglected to mention is to do a crankshaft variation relearn.If the battery or ECM has been disconnected this is something that must be done and can cause misfires.

                Comment

                • Crusty
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 2450

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Alberson
                  So Ive been reading through this whole thread and seems to me it looks like everyone has skipped all of the basics. Sometimes in this kind of situation its best to start all over again and just forget everything you have done. First: When does misfire occur? Cold start idle only? Hot idle only? Driving down road under no load with light acceleration? Driving down road under no load with heavy acceleration? Driving down road under heavy load with light acceleration? Driving down road under heavy load with hard acceleration?

                  Have you checked the air filter to see if its very dirty or restricted? If so check MAF readings. Should be between 3-8 grams per second. Also check IAT (should ususally be higher than ambiant air temp if engine is hot. Those are two different sensors in different locations). IAT is built into the MAF. Also check short and long term fuel trims. They should stay between -10 and +10 when fuel system is in closed loop. If any of those readings are out of range clean or replace MAF sensor. Most all of your snap on scanners now have a guided component test to determine if the MAF sensor is containmented.

                  Check fuel pressure at idle and while driving down the road. Restricted fuel filter or weak pump can cause misfires along with out of range fuel trims. Also pull a fuel sample to determine if it has water in it or if e85 put in.

                  Check current ramping of fuel injector of misfiring cylinder. This will show a sticking pintle in the injector. Perform fuel injector cleaning and recheck current ramping. If still bad replace injector. Fuel injector balance test will show the same results as current ramping.

                  Another quick thing is to inspect plug wires. Look if the wires are touching each other and have white marks at the place they are touching. Could be arching out between each other. If suspected mix up a mixture of 50/50 water and rubbing alcohol and spray they wires. Do not touch the vehicle while spraying it. Could give ya a lil tingle.

                  If all checks ok swap plugs to see if misfire moves. If not time to move into more exciting things. Pull a compression check. If check ok, which it should, do a valve leak down test. BEING VERY VERY CAREFULL use a screwdriver and insert into spark plug hole and turn crank over by hand until that piston reachs TDC. Attach shop air to cylinder and slowly increase while watching that the crankshaft doesnt turn. Remove or hold open throttle blade and listen into exhaust system for escaping air. A VERY small amount is ok. Check another cylinder to compare with. If a valve is leaking check valve spring to see if its broken. Using a bore scope see if valve seating surface is burnt. If not burnt Sometimes running GM fuel injector cleaner into intake to clean carbon off valve will resolve issue.

                  In some rare cases I have seen the drive belt cause a misfire due to misalignment of an acc or a bad pulley or acc itself. Also the harmonic balancer can do this.

                  Gm does say when using the tech 2 viewing the misfire graphic to ignore random misfires AT IDLE ONLY.

                  Also try preforming a cam crank sync in the service function if all else fails.

                  One of these items should resolve your issue. Good Luck
                  Hello Alberson.
                  It appears you're on the ball observing things.
                  I agree with you in regards to "swapping" a plug. ONLY to see if the problem moves WITH the plug (and that, only after other basic fundamental tests have been done).
                  Welcome to the forums here.

                  Comment

                  • Alberson
                    Junior Member
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 2

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Crusty
                    Hello Alberson.
                    It appears you're on the ball observing things.
                    I agree with you in regards to "swapping" a plug. ONLY to see if the problem moves WITH the plug (and that, only after other basic fundamental tests have been done).
                    Welcome to the forums here.
                    Yes you are very correct. That is why in the sixth paragraph I said "If all checks ok swap plugs to see if misfire moves." You were only rephrasing exactly what I had said.

                    Comment

                    • carfixer
                      Member
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 39

                      #25
                      sounds like a vacuum leak of some sort hows the trims?

                      Comment

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