Which used platform for my needs?

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  • rchalmers3
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 9

    Which used platform for my needs?

    Hey guys, I just found this forum and would like to hear your opinion on my question about which used platform would best cover my needs.

    I live in a remote, rural area where most cars are in the 1991-2005 year model range. Some of these cars come to me with ABS, SRS and other non-engine performance issues that I'd like to investigate. My Fluke 88V and subscription to Mitchell1 are insufficient in most of these cases I encounter. I'd like to purchase the best possible used Snap-On platform that will allow me to view live and recorded data, manipulate the various systems with bi-directional communications, provide a library of known good signal patterns and give me access to known problems and fixes.

    It is highly important to me to have access to any available technical information data bases, like those offered by Snap-On. My personal experience and hands on time is not sufficient, so I'm willing to hear your suggestion on which platform offers the most assistance with experience. For this tool, OBDI compatibility can be forsaken.

    So.... which platform hits the sweet spot of maximum coverage and capability for the early ODDII vehicles, while not limiting forward upgrades? Price is important, but for opening the discussion, identifying the platforms comes first! I have been reading about the current models on the Snap-On website, and I've been watching some used Modis and Solus Ultras on Ebay. I surmise my skill set would benefit from either of those platforms, but I'd like to hear from you.

    Thanks in advance!

    Rick
  • Modis500
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2012
    • 358

    #2
    Modis includes DMM, Scope, and Scanner all in one. Plus it's update able past 2014 and a great platform. That's my two cents!

    Tom
    "If you aim for nothing, you'll hit it every time!"
    Zig Ziglar

    Comment

    • Joe Rappa
      Snap-on DSD
      • Aug 2007
      • 2050

      #3
      When it comes to scanner coverage, all Snap-on scanners are identical as long as they are on the same update. That means as long as the software is current, a Solus will do the same thing as a Verus Pro.
      So, your decision will be driven by the features you want to add.
      Need a Multimeter and lab scope in the same tool? Get a Modis Ultra or Verus Pro. If not, get a Solus Ultra.

      Joe
      "You don't build a reputation on what you're going to do"
      Henry Ford

      Comment

      • Witsend
        Banned
        • Nov 2012
        • 2942

        #4
        As a bottom feeder I would recommend A $500 -$800 used DS 708 for a first full capability scanner or to get additional European and immobilizer coverage but DS has no pre 96 OBD1 coverage , and it is kind of hit or miss for early OBD2 96 through 99 years on some makes and has no troubleshooter at all. but from reading posts , I believe the Solus Ultra and a Vantage Pro are stable platforms and would be a great combo. I have an old MT2500 with European with coverage through 2005 , a DS 708 that I will probably never update, and an old Counselor 2 that has a 2 channel lab scope in the event I feel the need to scope something that the awful graphing of a DS 708 can't display properly.
        Last edited by Witsend; 01-01-2015, 05:48 PM.

        Comment

        • maven
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2014
          • 269

          #5
          The original MODIS is an excellent platform that is still relevant and will be powerful tool for years to come. And they can usually be had for less than a Solus Pro can.
          Going beyond a Solus Pro isn't necessarily best use of funds. If you feel the 88v isn't powerful enough(I'd disagree) pick up either a MODIS or a Solus and then a DSO(digital storage oscilloscope). If you want to become skilled with use of a scope you must use it...use it often, and use it on known good vehicles as well. Use it to store bad waveforms, then the good ones after a repair. Use software to catalog and annotate theses waveforms. Subscribe to IATN.

          I'd get an original Solus, the best scope you can find, and IATN.
          (I own a MODIS Ultra...)

          Comment

          • rchalmers3
            Junior Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 9

            #6
            Awesome suggestions and advise

            Thanks guys, you have given me some great answers. I'll reply to your responses in a general way and ask you a few more questions.

            I'm leaning towards the newer platforms, as I recall that Snap-On occasionally orphans their progeny due to limits in the platform architecture, or to reconfigure their product line. I'd like for my purchase dollars to have the longest possible legs! Also, if I can access all OBDII cars with a single cable, without keys, that seems like a good sign that the platform has increased internal capacities..... is that assumption accurate?

            The Modis Ultra with 14.2-14.4 and Euro upgrades can be sourced used on Ebay for about $4500 at the moment. I'm considering that expenditure, but at the same time I'm questioning my need for a Digital Lab Scope. Do you guys really put the DLS to work or is it a tool you like to have but seldom use? Please give me examples of how you have used the scope function to ferret out failures that could not be found by pinning out sensors, reading drive histories or monitoring live PIDS. I'm willing to learn and grow into the added troubleshooting capability, but then I'm from the ancient past where we solved issues using basic tools and understanding.

            If both candidates mentioned have equal capacity for bi-directional communication, then the DLS appears to be the main difference (that and about $1-2k) between the Solus Ultra and Modis Ultra on the used market. On the Snap-On website, when I perform a comparison of the two models, the Solus Ultra is indicated as not having "Fast Track" capability. However in the description of the Solus Ultra, the "Fast Track" feature is mentioned. Which is correct? And what is your opinion of the "Fast Track" database? Will it be useful to me given my limited experience? What do you guys use for ideas when you need some assistance?

            I joined iATN just now. I did not purchase the subscription as of yet, but given the brief study of what is available for free, I may have to upgrade my subscription in order to get any use out of the data base. Thankfully they let me join without providing proof of certification. My certification expired over a decade ago.

            Rick

            Comment

            • maven
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2014
              • 269

              #7
              Solus Ultra does have Fast Track. The Fast track documents are also available to view/print free online at the SureTrack website.
              The keyless OBD2 cable is definitely nice. But be aware that most European cars and even Asian imports(Nissan in particular comes to mind for pre2k OBD2) still require a specific cable and euro requires software activation.

              A scope is like any tool you don't have....you don't know why you need it until you get one and it saves you a bunch of time on an issue you've had before. Then you'll kick yourself for not having gotten one earlier. That said, its not a tool you can buy, not use and then expect it to be helpful out of the blue one day. Its not lime those S bend wrenches, or super long hex keys, or any other mechanical tool. Mechanical tools you can let them sit in your box for years and as long as you remember you have them they will save your skin one day.
              Utilizing A scope to diagnose is a skill. You have to practice, you have to devote time to it. You have to make the effort to reach for it before you reach for your Fluke or a test light. They are complex. Capturing and analyzing waveforms is a skill. But once you gain this skill It can be amazingly powerful.

              I would skip the MODIS Ultra and pickup a Solus Ultra and a 4 channel PICO scope automotive disgnositc kit. For the same money as the MODIS Ultra you'll have a more useful more flexible more capable setup. And you won't have to worry about your scan tool and your scope both being out of commission if one gets damaged. Plus software updates for the Solus are cheaper.

              Comment

              • Joe Rappa
                Snap-on DSD
                • Aug 2007
                • 2050

                #8
                If you want longevity then get the most recently released tools. That would be a Solus EDGE or Modis Ultra. The Verus Pro has been out a few years now.

                That said, Snap-on doesn't abandon scanners just because new ones are out. The Solus has been around for probably 15 years. You can still update it and send it in for repairs. Updates do end for it this spring, but that is a lot of longevity for a scanner. Solus-Pro came out in 2007. It hasn't been available for a few years now, but is still supported. Same for Modis. So don't sweat longevity.

                Lab scope useage is up to you. Do you use one now? Do you need one? Some guys use them a lot. Some guys have never touched one, and wouldn't know what to do if they owned them for free. You are the only person that can answer that question.
                The big advantage of a Snap-on scope over the others is the database that is built into the tool. It shows component locations, connector views and has instructions for testing every component. It's a great feature.

                Joe
                "You don't build a reputation on what you're going to do"
                Henry Ford

                Comment

                • Crusty
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 2450

                  #9
                  Joe and Maven are both correct here.

                  For single cable to connect to all modules get the Solus-ULTRA. Now that the Solus-EDGE is out they will probably be available at a less costly investment dollar.

                  The "SOLUS" line has several incarnations. The original SOLUS, then the Solus-PRO, then the Solus-ULTRA, and now the Solus-EDGE.

                  I currently use a Solus-PRO and a Solus-ULTRA and I like them both for different reasons.

                  To compliment the scan tools I have a Fluke scope meter and a VANTAGE-PRO scope. Easy to use and has some pin outs and diagnostic references built in. I rarely wish for 4-channells but the PICO-scope as Maven mentioned would be a good choice.
                  The problem with the Pico-scope is it needs a computer to run on whereas the Vantage-PRO is a stand alone hand held.

                  Solus-ULTRA combined with a Vantage-PRO makes for a dynamite combination. If one needs to be sent out for repairs, you still have the other fully functional and both are hand held stand alone units.

                  A simple example of using both would be something like a wheel speed sensor glitching. You see it on the scan tool but you can then test the circuit with the scope and isolate whether it's the sensor or the cables and connections and the exact location.

                  Solus-ULTRA
                  Vantage-PRO

                  Comment

                  • maven
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2014
                    • 269

                    #10
                    Vantage Pro is an excellent tool, Ive been on the lookout for one near me for a while now. They seem to pop up and are gone immediately in my area.

                    The reason I recommended the PICO over the Vantage has to do with the reason I stated they take dedication.....you really need to save and document your good and bad waveforms. Doing this on the Vantage properly requires you to hook it to a PC, its extra steps. And I dont find ShopStream to be as easy to use as the PICO software. If I need to hook up my scope to the PC just to utilize it fully anyway why would I want to put up with the small screen and more fiddly controls of the SnapOn scope when I can just use a PICO (PICO offers a 2ch scope which is about $600 cheaper than the 4ch, ATS also offers a 4ch Escope which is excellent value)

                    I Own a Fluke 28II as my go to meter,an original Vantage as a backup, I also own a MODIS Ultra, a Fluke 98 2ch scope meter, and have a PICO 4ch in the shop at times.

                    I didnt use a scope for probably the first 12-13 years of my career, and in that time I dont feel I suffered due to my lack of one. I consider myself a skilled diagnostic tech, and I do very well with a quality meter, a PowerProbe some jumper leads, and homemade test lights.Now that Ive acquired various graphing meters and scopes I see their vaule, there are things you can accomplish with a 4ch scope that is just not physically possible with a meter or even a graphing meter. (for instance, checking camshaft timing

                    But being skilled with your Fluke, having a quality scan tool that offers graphing of PIDs, and having access to quality, complete service information will most likley make you more money than just owning and occasionally using a scope(Vantage or DSO type) will.

                    I can tell you that I rarely use my Modis as both a scanner and a scope at the same time. Youre much more likely to see the modis hooked up as a scan tool and my 28II hooked up to electrical circuits or finding me just using my Modis scope as a giant screen graphing meter. haha.

                    Starting fresh Id get the Solus Ultra, and look around for some signal generators and the best service information I could get my hands on. Scope is really nice, but its also not NEEDED for 99% of the work that most techs do. Unless youre willing to invest the time to learn to use it, and the time to catalog good and bad waveforms from most of the cars you work on.

                    Comment

                    • rchalmers3
                      Junior Member
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 9

                      #11
                      Dont wanna wear out my newb welcome

                      Thanks guys,
                      Given the collective experience and suggestions, I am focusing on the Solus Ultra for my next tool purchase. I think it will provide me with the window into the vehicle operations and knowledge data base that I'm seeking. The study of waveform pattern diagnostics and tools is something I can take on as a separate area of learning and tool set.

                      I acknowledge you guys probably don't see 20 year old cars in your shops, but I gotta "test drive" my assumptions regarding software coverage through your experience! Let me ask you: Does the 14.2 or the newer 14.4 software provide adequate coverage of 1996 and newer Toyota 4Runners and Nissan Pathfinder sub-systems? I need maximum access into traction control, ABS, SRS and other non-engine related issues. In your opinion is the coverage complete or are there big holes where the software does not serve on these early models?

                      I'm really glad I registered on this forum and thank you all for sharing your perspectives. In hindsight I wish I had checked with you folks before putting my money in the hands of the Matco rep for one of his Maximus 2.0 platforms. That tool is disappointing me in almost every circumstance. I guess I had to make that error to get to this point where I can ask better questions before a purchase.

                      Rick

                      Comment

                      • maven
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2014
                        • 269

                        #12
                        Originally posted by rchalmers3
                        Does the 14.2 or the newer 14.4 software provide adequate coverage of 1996 and newer Toyota 4Runners and Nissan Pathfinder sub-systems? I need maximum access into traction control, ABS, SRS and other non-engine related issues. In your opinion is the coverage complete or are there big holes where the software does not serve on these early models?



                        Rick
                        SnapOn diagnostic software system coverage is available on the SnapOn website I believe this is it for 14.4: https://www1.snapon.com/display/1068....4AG_FINAL.pdf

                        Comment

                        • chaskuss
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 192

                          #13
                          Originally posted by rchalmers3
                          snipped

                          I acknowledge you guys probably don't see 20 year old cars in your shops, but I gotta "test drive" my assumptions regarding software coverage through your experience! snipped
                          Rick
                          Rick, for the old cars, I would suggest you also pick up an old MT2500, in addition to your newer one. If you get a Solus or Modis, you will only need the main body and software cartridges, as the adapters, keys and cables will interchange [at least with the Solus Pro and Modis Elite] I just fixed my 1992 v 1.8 MT2500 [3rd fix in 22 years] This is a much better tool for old stuff than any of the other brands of scanners. Should be able to pick one up cheap on EBay. Be sure to get a v 2.2 [the latest] It has a newer motherboard and has a back lit LCD screen.
                          The MT2500 boots up faster & is easier to use on old stuff, compared to newer scanners.
                          Last edited by chaskuss; 01-02-2015, 12:41 PM. Reason: added info

                          Comment

                          • rchalmers3
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2015
                            • 9

                            #14
                            MT2500

                            I remember those. I recall that the cartridge driven system became unwieldy as data file sizes expanded at geometric rates. Pretty soon technicians needed another plastic box to store the cassettes. The cartridge system also did not allow for revisions and the back filling of information. Is this an orphaned platform that many of you still find useful? My assumption is to look past the older platforms, because newer platforms have the benefit of the accumulated wisdom, expanded architecture and downloadable revisions to eliminate bugs and bogus info, and add missing data and tests. But maybe I'm over simplifying this?

                            Rick
                            Last edited by rchalmers3; 01-02-2015, 01:46 PM. Reason: complete makeover of this reply

                            Comment

                            • Witsend
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 2942

                              #15
                              I remember those. I recall that the cartridge driven system became unwieldy as data file sizes expanded at geometric rates. Pretty soon technicians needed another plastic box to store the cassettes. The cartridge system also did not allow for revisions and the back filling of information. Is this an orphaned platform that many of you still find useful? My assumption is to look past the older platforms, because newer platforms have the benefit of the accumulated wisdom, expanded architecture and downloadable revisions to eliminate bugs and bogus info, and add missing data and tests. But maybe I'm over simplifying this?

                              Rick
                              I had bought a used original Solus , but sold it shortly after and just kept an old MT2500 with Euro. I believe cartridges will swap between other MT2500s including the programmable black cartridges, and just decided to dump Solus and get a DS 708 for newer cars ,because it includes European model coverage for no additional cost and capable of doing immobilizer keys on some makes. It don't pay to update if you can sell the damn scanner and take the 500 cash you could get for it , and come up with another 6 or 7 hundred you would otherwise spend to update one for another year and you could buy a new replacement each year. I won't update, but I will upgrade again someday if I feel a need to.Most of the cars I fix now are older than 4 years old
                              Last edited by Witsend; 01-02-2015, 05:52 PM.

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