Which used platform for my needs?

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  • rchalmers3
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 9

    #16
    Witsend, who manufactures the DS 708? I see the US distributor is out of NY. Is it an Asian or European product?

    I did a quick study on Amazon. It sounds like (from the product description and reviews) a recent entry to the market platform with a few places in the navigational architecture that leave the operator having to do some searching to access the desired section. Does that jive with your experience in manipulating the tool?

    I admit I'm a little gun shy, having recently purchased the Maximus 2.0. I wish to avoid being seduced again by a lower price platform that disappoints me in the vehicle coverage and is laden with basic navigational hiccups and errors. I acknowledge SnapOn does not produce perfect products, but the company has been producing platforms for decades. I'm hoping that by making a careful purchase, I can benefit from the legacy of the company and their devotion to making their tools useful.

    I'm hoping y'all can answer my question about whether the Solus covers all the sub systems on early OBDII 4Runners and Pathfinders. That would really help me out!

    Rick

    Comment

    • rchalmers3
      Junior Member
      • Jan 2015
      • 9

      #17
      Originally posted by maven
      SnapOn diagnostic software system coverage is available on the SnapOn website I believe this is it for 14.4: https://www1.snapon.com/display/1068....4AG_FINAL.pdf
      Thanks Maven, I finally had the time to explore the link you provided.

      It appears the answer to my question is no: Snap-On does not cover the sub systems on the older vehicles arriving at my door, at least through the software provided in the current platforms. Thus the purchase of a slightly used Solus Ultra, while offering a lot more data and capability, will not provide access to non-power train systems on 1998-2002 4Runners and Pathfinders.

      I feel the need to slow down a bit and think of better questions to ask about what I'm trying to achieve. If a diagnostic tool purchase does not give me an advantage, I need to specify what it is I need and how do I get it.

      I think that what I need to do is to explore information systems like iATN and Identifix further. It may be that the basic diagnostic info I need is out there, and I just need to become familiar with where it's at.

      Thank you,

      Rick

      Comment

      • maven
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2014
        • 269

        #18
        Rick, Autel is a Chinese company. Their tools are gaining popularity due to the low cost and relatively wide coverage. They are often reviewed poorly for lacking features that are need to for working on North American market vehicles, and for things being "lost in translation" to English and for weird behavior especially when graphing. Though many people find them still to have value due to the incredibly low cost(sub $1000 for a new DS708)
        If you Google mt2500 coverage and look around you should find the coverage charts for the old scanner are still available. I found the one for the 2000 update very easily.

        You might want to look into Autoenginuity. If I didn't use an OEM tool and SnapOn tools its what I would buy. Its PC based so you'll need a PC, laptop or tablet to run it, but in my limited experience its a quality too . Here some of its coverage. https://www.autoenginuity.com/images...tems-List.html

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        • chaskuss
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2009
          • 192

          #19
          Originally posted by rchalmers3
          I remember those. I recall that the cartridge driven system became unwieldy as data file sizes expanded at geometric rates. Pretty soon technicians needed another plastic box to store the cassettes. The cartridge system also did not allow for revisions and the back filling of information. Is this an orphaned platform that many of you still find useful? My assumption is to look past the older platforms, because newer platforms have the benefit of the accumulated wisdom, expanded architecture and downloadable revisions to eliminate bugs and bogus info, and add missing data and tests. But maybe I'm over simplifying this?

          Rick
          Yes, software bundle 9.2 [2nd quarter of 2009] was the last upgrade available for the old MT2500. The cartridges could all be upgraded. The older, red cartridges required you to replace two of the PROMs on the cartridge's board to upgrade it. Last upgrades were for 2001 model year. After that, the black cartridges came out. These are programmable, up to their memory limits of the 9.2 software bundle [2008 USA & 2007 Asian vehicles]
          These older cartridges have some info that has been dropped to save space [and because the cars are so old] on the newer scanners & software bundles. I still find mine useful on cars up to about 2006. However, my Modis can access more systems on cars from about 2002 & up. The MT2500 is useful as a secondary scanner, if you can pick one up cheap on EBay with newer or better yet, multiple cartridges.

          Comment

          • Witsend
            Banned
            • Nov 2012
            • 2942

            #20
            Here is a link to video of a guy scanning an old 2001 Nissan Extera with a DS708. On the earlier OBD2 Nissans you might even have to use the supplied Obd1 style Nissan connector to communicate with the modules. The tool is pretty intuitive and often has more capabilities but no troubleshooter like Snap On has.

            Comment

            • chaskuss
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 192

              #21
              Checking Camshaft Timing with Scope?

              Originally posted by maven
              snipped there are things you can accomplish with a 4ch scope that is just not physically possible with a meter or even a graphing meter. ([I]for instance, checking camshaft timing snipped
              Maven,
              Could you expand on your comment above? I'd really like to know how to do this with my Modis Elite.

              Comment

              • Witsend
                Banned
                • Nov 2012
                • 2942

                #22
                A picture worth a 1000 words, a video worth a million?

                Chaskuss, this is a great you tube vid

                Comment

                • SPS10.4
                  Member
                  • Aug 2012
                  • 39

                  #23
                  Originally posted by rchalmers3

                  I need maximum access into traction control, ABS, SRS and other non-engine related issues.
                  You did ask the right questions in your first post and even underlined what was important to your situation. There is no Snap-On platform, past or present, that satisfies your needs.

                  Forget about the MT2500 or Maxidas (DS708).

                  You need factory tooling. Upgrade to a sponsoring member on iATN. Search the archives for Nissan Consult and Toyota Techstream/TIS.

                  Are you working on North American market vehicles?

                  Comment

                  • Crusty
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 2450

                    #24
                    In general, I somewhat agree with SPS10.4 BUT, and it's a big one.....

                    I just searched the Nissan Consult and the Toyota Techstream...

                    BOTH are PC based systems and the Toyota needs a subscription to keep things running.....a FOREVER drain on your credit card-!!

                    The Nissan Consult package showed a list price of over 12,000 and can be had for a deal at over 8,000........

                    Toyota is 55 bananas for 3 days of operation, or an annual subscription of 1,100.......

                    The Toyota Techstream LITE only hooks up to OBDII vehicles from 1996 and newer......

                    While the vehicle specific data pids on SnapOn scanners may be hit and miss and is sometimes a little "weak" on older vehicles, (better on newer carlines), the FUNDAMENTAL pids along with service Information such as All-Data or Mitchell, and add a scope to use as a very capable voltmeter which also shows the voltage over time, and there isn't much that can't be figured out.

                    IF the original poster was in an URBAN environment rather than a remote RURAL location the number of vehicles and the demographics may be viable for the "Factory Tool Only" position.
                    He'll probably have to work all year just to pay for the equipment-! Software and conflicts (which happen ALL the time) means he should use two separate laptops to run those two pieces of kit.
                    Yes he could possibly partition his hard drive to create two systems on one laptop but what happens WHEN a common component goes for a dump-?
                    That means he still needs two laptops, one to run with and a second one for backup. Now comes the "license" shown in the Toyota site, licensed for ONE PC. So there goes the backup theory.....

                    I still say a Solus ULTRA scan tool (or a Solus-PRO scan tool which needs personality keys but can hook up to many older platforms better than the Ultra on Pre-OBDII vehicles)) and a Vantage-PRO scope and a decent information system and he can probably fix 95% of what he would be faced with.

                    The ability to capture, save, transfer screen shots and PID movies to a computer for long term storage, and then with SnapOn's SSC (ShopStream Connect), and he can build his own database of known good and known bad data for the vehicles he sees.

                    Older vehicles = Solus-PRO
                    OBDII vehicles = Solus-ULTRA
                    Scope = Vantage-PRO
                    (All three are hand held, rugged, durable stand alone)

                    Computer software = Shop Stream Connect (SSC)
                    (free download from this site and reads files from all three)

                    Information System = Mitchell, All-Data, or other....


                    I simply do not agree with the "Factory Tool Only" position.
                    Add up ALL the OE scan tools....Most people don't have a hundred grand to throw around. Five grand here, six grand there, seven grand somewhere else, CONSTANT internet subscriptions just to keep them running, add a couple of Euro OE scan tools, all of which require separate dedicated laptops or computers, and you can see how a hundred grand can easily be accumulated-!!

                    AFAIC NASTF is a JOKE-!

                    Comment

                    • Witsend
                      Banned
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 2942

                      #25
                      I noticed rchalmers resides in the Island nation of Costa Rica I don't know what world market most of the older Nissans and Toyota he sees were built for , whether or not it would be a potpourri of European, South American, Asia, or whatever, but I'm thinking he is pretty much F'd if he bought a US market only Snap on scan tool. I'm thinking if it wasn't for Cat 4 hurricanes there washing old cars out to sea every 10 years or so, most of the cars there would still be antiques with breaker point ignition. I figure mopeds and scooter repair would be a more lucrative sort of business in Costa Rica.
                      If he really wants an aftermarket scanner that covers various world market cars newer than 2000 models pretty well with an actual menu to choose which major market,right or left side steering etc, then maybe Autel scanner would be a better alternative then a Solus Ultra in an Island nation's assortment of funky 3 wheeled cars , like the UK has, LOL. Another Chinese Scanner company that has pretty damn good coverage on scanners is Launch, but rumor has it that the name for the company was chosen in memory of a 90 lb senior engineer that was "Launched "out of Mercedes convertible while doing airbag system Bi directional testing. LOL
                      Last edited by Witsend; 01-04-2015, 10:53 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Joe Rappa
                        Snap-on DSD
                        • Aug 2007
                        • 2050

                        #26
                        For folks that aren't in the US or Canada, an option is to get a Snap-on Scanner with software made for Australia. The reason being is that it would work on vehicles built for the European, Asian and North American Markets, and it would be in English.
                        "You don't build a reputation on what you're going to do"
                        Henry Ford

                        Comment

                        • maven
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2014
                          • 269

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Witsend
                          I noticed rchalmers resides in the Island nation of Costa Rica I don't know what world market most of the older Nissans and Toyota he sees were built for , whether or not it would be a potpourri of European, South American, Asia, or whatever, but I'm thinking he is pretty much F'd if he bought a US market only Snap on scan tool. I'm thinking if it wasn't for Cat 4 hurricanes there washing old cars out to sea every 10 years or so, most of the cars there would still be antiques with breaker point ignition. I figure mopeds and scooter repair would be a more lucrative sort of business in Costa Rica.
                          If he really wants an aftermarket scanner that covers various world market cars newer than 2000 models pretty well with an actual menu to choose which major market,right or left side steering etc, then maybe Autel scanner would be a better alternative then a Solus Ultra in an Island nation's assortment of funky 3 wheeled cars , like the UK has, LOL. Another Chinese Scanner company that has pretty damn good coverage on scanners is Launch, but rumor has it that the name for the company was chosen in memory of a 90 lb senior engineer that was "Launched "out of Mercedes convertible while doing airbag system Bi directional testing. LOL
                          Man...Wit...you really just need to keep your hands of the keyboard sometimes. SOOOO ignorant. Just to touch on one comment and leave the rest alone. Costa Rica is not an island.

                          Comment

                          • rchalmers3
                            Junior Member
                            • Jan 2015
                            • 9

                            #28
                            Moving forward

                            Thanks guys,

                            SPS10.4,
                            I concur with your view: What I'm looking for won't be found in any SnapOn nor any other platform, at least in an affordable manner. The idea of subscribing to factory information is a non-starter. I recall that some of their diagnostic routines also call for special tooling.... so the cost would probably end up being much higher than just the subscription cost, in order to have the info be valuable.

                            Crusty, I appreciate your opinion and intend to follow some of your advise. See below.

                            Maven,
                            I looked at the AutoEnginuity software, and found that their "Enhanced" coverage of the 1996 Nissan Pathfinder covers the engine and power train very thoroughly, but nothing else. From that finding, I expect a lack of coverage across other brands, including Toyota product information. Thank you again for throwing out some ideas for me to investigate. I appreciate your ideas and interest.

                            From my haphazard, incomplete and non-conclusive study conducted over the past few evenings, it appears that diagnostic platforms, be they American, Chinese or Taiwanese manufactured, all commence to cover traction control, ABS, SRS and other areas starting around 2005 year model. I don't fault you guys for not mentioning this apparent fact: It is probably so obvious to you that you expected me to know! That's as close to an apology as you will get from me for wasting your time with my thread questions!

                            Given my current understanding, I do not need to be in a rush to replace the Maximus 2.0. While it does not provide the assistance I require on the older models, neither will any other tool. It does have utility on newer models and it's performance on them is yet to be discovered. I just need more time with the right target vehicles to suss it out. At the same time, my disappointment in the navigational software and obvious errors in language translation have me second guessing my purchase decision.

                            I can sell the Maximus 2.0 on Ebay and purchase a slightly used Solus Ultra with the Euro kit for about equal dollars, which means I'll be leaving about $1700 in the pocket of the Matco salesman. That stings, but if the diagnostic info in the Slous Ultra serves me, I'll fugetaboutit.

                            Off topic, but to address the latest thread posts, Costa Rica is part of the American continent. All vehicles are restricted by law to be RHD. CR is a major purchaser of used cars from the good 'ole US of A. I'd estimate that 70% of the personal transportation vehicles are from the US market. Plus, I have found that non-US cars that have corresponding models made for the US market are very similar in construction, with slight differences due to DOT standards. My crappy little read only scanner and the Maximus 2.0 seem to read US and non US cars equally, so no big shakes about being out here in the sticks: Cars are cars.

                            Rick

                            Comment

                            • Witsend
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 2942

                              #29
                              Off topic, but to address the latest thread posts, Costa Rica is part of the American continent. All vehicles are restricted by law to be RHD. CR is a major purchaser of used cars from the good 'ole US of A. I'd estimate that 70% of the personal transportation vehicles are from the US market. Plus, I have found that non-US cars that have corresponding models made for the US market are very similar in construction, with slight differences due to DOT standards. My crappy little read only scanner and the Maximus 2.0 seem to read US and non US cars equally, so no big shakes about being out here in the sticks: Cars are cars.

                              Rick
                              Rick, it looks like a beautiful place to live. I envy you . nothing but frigid temps and snow in the forecast here in Illinois.

                              Comment

                              • rchalmers3
                                Junior Member
                                • Jan 2015
                                • 9

                                #30
                                Cheers Witsend, and Happy New Year to you.

                                Rick

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