Using Cold Soak Bypass to run Evap Monitor on Fords

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  • Bob's Garage
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2007
    • 3257

    Using Cold Soak Bypass to run Evap Monitor on Fords

    Using Cold Soak Bypass to run Evap Monitor on Fords is by far one of the easiest ways to get the Evap monitor to set to ready.

    Snap-on has done an excellent job of not only adding this functional test to the scanner line-up but also incorporating data into the test. This is great because you can watch the the Canister Valve (CV) close:

    20110222-1059-1.JPG


    You can now watch the monitor run. In this particular case three attempts were made to run the monitor, evidenced by the CV activity in the Graph:

    20110225-1053-1.jpg

    That was due to the erratic activity of the FLI sensor because this was a Navigator with a bad air ride system (a real kidney shaker) which was making the fuel slosh too much to keep the monitor going. The third attempt was successful because I was able to use the whole road up avoiding dips and rough patches in the road. The monitor went ready right away on the third attempt.

    I would say that one addition could be made to this test. Some instruction.

    Something similar to what Ford's IDS shows in the OBD Drive Cycle instructions.


    It would be rather simple to do I think. The requirements are basic. Fuel level between 15 & 85 %. IAT above 41F. Use a road that has few hills and curves and that is relatively smooth and travel at 45 to 65 MPH steady speed. There is a little more to it than that but you get the point.

    Last edited by Bob's Garage; 02-27-2011, 08:29 PM. Reason: Finish Post
  • Crusty
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2007
    • 2450

    #2
    Originally posted by Bob's Garage
    Using Cold Soak Bypass to run Evap Monitor on Fords is by far one of the easiest ways to get the Evap monitor to set to ready.

    Snap-on has done an excellent job of not only adding this functional test to the scanner line-up but also incorporating data into the test. This is great because you can watch the the Canister Valve (CV) close:

    [ATTACH]5666[/ATTACH]


    You can now watch the monitor run. In this particular case three attempts were made to run the monitor, evidenced by the CV activity in the Graph:

    [ATTACH]5667[/ATTACH]

    That was due to the erratic activity of the FLI sensor because this was a Navigator with a bad air ride system (a real kidney shaker) which was making the fuel slosh too much to keep the monitor going. The third attempt was successful because I was able to use the whole road up avoiding dips and rough patches in the road. The monitor went ready right away on the third attempt.

    I would say that one addition could be made to this test. Some instruction.

    Something similar to what Ford's IDS shows in the OBD Drive Cycle instructions.


    It would be rather simple to do I think. The requirements are basic. Fuel level between 15 & 85 %. IAT above 41F. Use a road that has few hills and curves and that is relatively smooth and travel at 45 to 65 MPH steady speed. There is a little more to it than that but you get the point.

    Wow, Fuel Level Input in Percent-!!
    You mean this is an important pid to see what the evap system is doing??
    It's in the data stream on 2001 to 2004 GM vehicles but SO REFUSES to include this IMPORTANT PID in their EVAP data group (amongst other "missing" pids)
    This is the same data group where SO puts the cooling fan relays, yet no COOLANT SENSOR pid, which is important not only for EVAP system operation but also for A/C high side pressures as well as basic cooling system operation.
    Without the "missing" pids, the tool isn't displaying COMPLETE information which sure doesn't make diagnostics easier or faster, with or without wireless capability.
    Complete & accurate are far more impotant than fast & easy, which it isn't when information is "missing"

    Comment

    • Orevin
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2010
      • 1110

      #3
      Great post Bob,

      A small addition to the requirements:


      Originally posted by Bob's Garage
      ... The requirements are basic. Fuel level between 15 & 85 %. IAT above 41F and below 100F. Use a road that has few hills and curves and that is relatively smooth and travel at 45 to 65 MPH steady speed...
      Summer is just around the corner, I hope...

      Part of the bypass routine is a KAM clear before the engine is started. That means all other readiness monitors will be reset as well. So, don't use the test as your "last resort" to close that one missing monitor, but make it your routine to start your drive cycle with EVAP bypass test.
      -Kai-
      Chicago, IL

      Comment

      • Bob's Garage
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2007
        • 3257

        #4
        Follow up

        Originally posted by Orevin
        Great post Bob,

        A small addition to the requirements:




        Summer is just around the corner, I hope...

        Part of the bypass routine is a KAM clear before the engine is started. That means all other readiness monitors will be reset as well. So, don't use the test as your "last resort" to close that one missing monitor, but make it your routine to start your drive cycle with EVAP bypass test.
        Hi Kai,

        Well, Sometimes I use the bypass as my test of "first resort" to get it through emissions in less time. I can run the Evap monitor quicker this way than to set the Catalyst monitor on most of these old junks we work on. In fact, there is a good chance O2 and O2 heater monitors will run during the run up to where the Evap monitor runs, if not the EGR.

        I almost always use the Cold Soak Bypass as my "code clear" when I am done with repairs and need to get one through the test that day since Ford Monitors don't care much about cold starts (except Evap).

        Of course we will alway check Mode$06 to see what condition the catalyst in, but to be honest, I like to have ALL my monitors ready when I get the car retested. If a catalyst is marginal, though, it will take longer to get it ready and I may not have time.

        It also depends on what time of day (can I get in a long run? enough to run an Evap monitor at 5:30 PM?) because it is actually easier to run a Catalyst monitor on a Ford in stop and go traffic. You will not run an Evap monitor on a Ford in stop and go traffic.

        Also, thanks for adding in the IAT hi temp limit/requirement on the reply. That's what should be done , though. Add the Evap monitor requirements right on the page where you are ready to hit "Continue" .



        Bob

        Comment

        • Bob's Garage
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2007
          • 3257

          #5
          GM Data Groups

          Originally posted by Crusty
          Wow, Fuel Level Input in Percent-!!
          You mean this is an important pid to see what the evap system is doing??
          It's in the data stream on 2001 to 2004 GM vehicles but SO REFUSES to include this IMPORTANT PID in their EVAP data group (amongst other "missing" pids)
          This is the same data group where SO puts the cooling fan relays, yet no COOLANT SENSOR pid, which is important not only for EVAP system operation but also for A/C high side pressures as well as basic cooling system operation.
          Without the "missing" pids, the tool isn't displaying COMPLETE information which sure doesn't make diagnostics easier or faster, with or without wireless capability.
          Complete & accurate are far more impotant than fast & easy, which it isn't when information is "missing"
          Crusty,

          Athough this is the EVAP forum, I think we should keep this thread going regardless.

          I know what you are saying about the GM data groups. If anything, they are inconsistent. I have reported several cases where there is no MAP PID in the EGR/Evap data groups in some cars. I need that PID to measure EGR performance:

          This GM EGR data group did not have MAP:
          20091214-1620-1.jpg

          This one has no MAP PID in EGR data group:

          20100804-1029-1.jpg

          This GM has MAP in EGR group, but only does a single column of data:

          20100807-0929-1.jpg

          Not every GM EGR data group reports Flow Test counts either with Snap-on, The Tech 2 always shows Test counts in the group with EGR data.

          DSC01005.JPG

          Sometimes there is no A/F ratio in the same group as the O2 sensors.

          20091214-1615-1.jpg


          Myself, I would rather use a custom data list with the choice of all PIDS available and somehow save that List for future use on the same vehicle. I hate having to rebuild my Custom data list every time I check the monitors or pending codes etc...

          Bob
          Last edited by Bob's Garage; 02-28-2011, 07:12 PM.

          Comment

          • Crusty
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2007
            • 2450

            #6
            BOB
            Your post regarding the Fords is good. If anyone cares to actually read how the systems work in the manuals, they would come to the same conclusions you have. Good post.

            So is the post regarding the IAT temperature. I have yet to see any evap test conditions that don't have a high/low for both CTS and IAT.
            They're not in the GM data groups in SO scanners either (consistently) but they ARE in the evap data group on the GM data list (again if anyone would care to actually look at the manuals or a TechII)

            Ya NAILED IT with your last comment....
            "Myself, I would rather use a custom data list with the choice of all PIDS available".....

            Now, if they can get the "custom" part of SSC to work where we can "E_D_I_T" the list, we can just go for a drive, save the movie of ALL THE PIDS, then select the pids we NEED to see, and walla, checking virtually any system is now a capability.
            Drive, save, plunk into SSC, & review....too simple, and that procedure would work on ANY vehicle.
            O2 sensors and fuel trims in the same data group???? Now why on Gods Green Earth would we want that??? LOL
            Far fewer systems would be "misdiagnosed", not only evap systems, but other systems as well.

            Comment

            • Bob's Garage
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2007
              • 3257

              #7
              Custom data lists with SSC

              Originally posted by Crusty
              BOB
              Ya NAILED IT with your last comment....
              "Myself, I would rather use a custom data list with the choice of all PIDS available".....

              Now, if they can get the "custom" part of SSC to work where we can "E_D_I_T" the list, we can just go for a drive, save the movie of ALL THE PIDS, then select the pids we NEED to see, and walla, checking virtually any system is now a capability.
              Drive, save, plunk into SSC, & review....too simple, and that procedure would work on ANY vehicle.
              .
              Crusty,

              I prefer not to capture all the PIDS as you were speaking about when I am diagnosing a system such as EVAP. I will pick only the number of PIDS I feel I need in order to "keep it clean" and to get the best possible data refresh rate athough it may not be so necessary for EVAP.

              Also, if I go to play it back on SSC there will be much less picking and arranging if PIDs to do, as I still find that part somewhat difficult with SSC without the E_D_I_T function. Of course, if I have no idea where to start on a poorly described or hard to duplicate drivabilty issue I may go and use the whole data group and sort it out later.

              It's funny how the Chrysler Data List is not broken into groups. I think Snap-on developers just kind of follow the trend if a manufacturer splits thier data into groups. I think they do that at the dealership level because not many of those guys have any idea what a custom data list is. Not all dealer Techs, just most. A lot of independent techs don't use custom data lists either, probably because they have not been told of the benefits.

              It appears though, that the factory scan tools have data groups that have every related PID possible for each system, plus more-sometimes too much!

              Then again there is the stupid VW data group set up. only 4 PIDs at a time? Who the hell can memorize all those groups?

              For all manufacturers, give me the list and I will make my own groups. Just give me a way to save them! Hey... there's an idea...



              Thanks, Bob

              Comment

              • Crusty
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2007
                • 2450

                #8
                Originally posted by Bob's Garage
                Crusty,

                I prefer not to capture all the PIDS as you were speaking about when I am diagnosing a system such as EVAP. I will pick only the number of PIDS I feel I need in order to "keep it clean" and to get the best possible data refresh rate athough it may not be so necessary for EVAP.

                Also, if I go to play it back on SSC there will be much less picking and arranging if PIDs to do, as I still find that part somewhat difficult with SSC without the E_D_I_T function. Of course, if I have no idea where to start on a poorly described or hard to duplicate drivabilty issue I may go and use the whole data group and sort it out later.

                It's funny how the Chrysler Data List is not broken into groups. I think Snap-on developers just kind of follow the trend if a manufacturer splits thier data into groups. I think they do that at the dealership level because not many of those guys have any idea what a custom data list is. Not all dealer Techs, just most. A lot of independent techs don't use custom data lists either, probably because they have not been told of the benefits.

                It appears though, that the factory scan tools have data groups that have every related PID possible for each system, plus more-sometimes too much!

                Then again there is the stupid VW data group set up. only 4 PIDs at a time? Who the hell can memorize all those groups?

                For all manufacturers, give me the list and I will make my own groups. Just give me a way to save them! Hey... there's an idea...



                Thanks, Bob
                Hi Bob
                Your previous post-----""Myself, I would rather use a custom data list with the choice of all PIDS available".....
                Then this-----"I will pick only the number of PIDS I feel I need" is exactly what I'm talking about.
                Ya can't pick a pid if it's not there because someone arbitrarily decided to take it out of the datastream. Do you know what the Ford evaporative system is doing if you can't see the pid? What if the Chrysler pids were not complete? With a lot of systems going to EONV & NVLD evap testing being able to see the pids related to those systems becomes even more important.
                Example: You don't know if a system is even going to try to do an evap EONV self test (to complete the monitors) if you can't tell if the vehicle has met all the prerequisites for said self test.

                This is from a Dodge P0455:

                ----------
                WHEN MONITORED
                Engine Running. Cold start test. Fuel Level greater than 12%. Ambient Temperature between 4 °C and 32 °C (39 °F and 89 °F) Close Loop fuel
                system. Test runs when small leak test is maturing
                ----------
                ------------

                This is from an 03 GM (other years are similar)

                --------
                - EVAP Data - Contains information specific to the evaporative emissions (EVAP) control system. Also displays parameters required to verify
                proper EVAP system operation

                -----

                As for your EGR example (and I concurr with your MAP pid)

                -------
                - EGR Data - Contains information specific to the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. This list displays parameters required to verify proper
                EGR system operation
                -------
                -------

                The key to these data groups is the statements that they "display parameters required to verify proper XXX system operation."

                Let US decide what pids WE want to view. That way you can VERIFY what the Ford (or any other make) is actually doing.

                As for viewing data in SSC, this is from a servcie manual...
                " Scan tool values from a properly running engine may be used for
                comparison with the engine you are diagnosing."
                So if you can save ALL the pids, you can refer back to them at a later date.
                If you create your own custom pid list, you can use that as a comparison to the vehicle in front of you for the system you're working on today.

                Here's what the Ford manual states for a 2008 F-150 (the 2003 is virtually the same)

                -----------
                "" ON BOARD DIAGNOSTIC (OBD) DRIVE CYCLE
                Description of On Board Diagnostic (OBD) Drive Cycle
                The following procedure is designed to execute and complete the OBD monitors and to clear the Ford P1000, I/M readiness code. To complete a
                specific monitor for repair verification, follow steps 1 through 4, then continue with the step described by the appropriate monitor found under the
                OBD Monitor Exercised column. For the EVAP/secondary AIR monitor to run, the ambient air temperature must be between 4.4 to 37.8°C (40 to 100
                °F), and the altitude below 2,438 meters (8,000 feet). If the PI000 code must be cleared in these conditions, the powertrain control module (PCM)
                must detect them once (twice on some applications) before the EVAP monitor can be bypassed
                and diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P1000 is cleared.
                The EVAP bypassing procedure is described in the following drive cycle.
                The OBD drive cycle is carried out using a scan tool. Refer to the manufacturer's instruction manual for each described function.
                A detailed description for clearing the DTCs is found. Refer to Clear The Continuous Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) And Reset The Emission
                Monitors Information in The Powertrain Control Module (PCM). See: Clear the Continuous Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) and Reset the
                Emission Monitors Information In the Powertrain Control Modu
                Drive Cycle Recommendations
                WARNING: Strict observance of posted speed limits and attention to driving conditions are mandatory when proceeding through the
                following drive cycles. Failure to follow these instructions may result in personal injury.
                1. Most OBD monitors complete more readily using a steady foot driving style during cruise or acceleration modes. Operating the throttle in a
                smooth fashion minimizes the time required for monitor completion.
                2. The fuel tank level should be between 1/2 and 3/4 full with 3/4 full being the most desirable.
                3. The evaporative monitor can operate only during the first 30 minutes of engine operation. When executing the procedure for this monitor, stay in
                part throttle mode and drive in a smooth fashion to minimize fuel slosh.
                4. When bypassing the EVAP engine soak times, the PCM must remain powered (key ON) after clearing the continuous DTCs and relearning
                emission diagnostic information
                .""

                ----------
                The rest of the chart is in the manual.


                Temperatures, fuel levels and time are just a few of the necessary prerequisites.
                To NOT INCLUDE pids means we can't get there from here.

                Comment

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