10.4 software and new User Interface

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  • phill57
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2007
    • 474

    10.4 software and new User Interface

    Good Day.

    I have been working with the new Verdict for a few days as I mentioned in my other post and I have noted that the next release of the Verus software will change it to a new user interface that is pretty much the same as the Verdict. Although there are a few nice features with this new interface one change that looks like we will get will be the loss of the ability to have up to 16 graphs. It is my understanding that the new UI will only allow 6 graphs and you cannot move them around and put them in any order as the current software allows. I don't know about you but I hate to lose features.

    There is level one Verus training available on the Snap-On training site: http://www1.snapon.com/diagnostics/u...S/Courses1.htm

    I wonder if the new software will open the recordings that we have made with the old software. I haven't been able to find out yet. I must have 500 or so pid recordings and 200 or so lab scope recordings.

    I went back to one of my posts last year on this forum (Verus Wish List) and read through it see how many things have changed. Maybe this is their way of fixing the service worksheet.
  • Nickb
    DSD
    • Aug 2007
    • 206

    #2
    You may want to back up your Verus before you upgrade it. As for the loss of graghs, does kind of suck, but realistically how many graghs can you concentrate on at one time. The new software will allow though for things like wireless scanning also. Here is the back up procedure.

    Backup:
    1. Open Internet Explorer
    2. Navigate to Diagnostics.Snapon.Com/cc
    3. Click on #14 Verus Backup and Restore Lite
    4. File Download: Click on Save
    5. Save As: Click on Save
    6. Download Complete: Click on Run
    7. Internet Explorer Security Warning: Click on Run
    8. Using the Virtual Keyboard or a USB Keyboard indicate you are ready to proceed by
    typing “Y” and then tapping on the keyboards “Enter” button
    9. Type “1” and then “Enter” on the keyboard to Backup the Verus
    10. Once “Your VERUS user data has been successfully backed up” is displayed you are
    done. Press any key on the keyboard to close the Backup and Restore Lite utility.
    11. Open My Computer and then Local Disk D:\
    12. Copy the “Verus Backup Files” folder to a external storage device like a USB Thumb
    Drive or External USB Hard Drive
    Restore:
    1. Open My Computer and then Local Disk D:\
    2. Copy the “Verus Backup Files” folder from the external storage device to Local Disk D:\
    3. Open Internet Explorer
    4. Navigate to Diagnostics.Snapon.Com/cc
    5. Click on #14 Verus Backup and Restore Lite
    6. File Download: Click on Save
    7. Save As: Click on Save
    8. Download Complete: Click on Run
    9. Internet Explorer Security Warning: Click on Run
    10. Using the Virtual Keyboard or a USB Keyboard indicate you are ready to proceed by
    typing “Y” and then tapping on the keyboards “Enter” button
    11. Type “2” and then “Enter” on the keyboard to Restore the Verus
    12. Once “Your VERUS user data has been successfully restored” is displayed you are
    done. Press any key on the keyboard to close the Backup and Restore Lite utility.
    DSD

    Comment

    • phill57
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2007
      • 474

      #3
      Backing up the Verus

      Hello Nick.

      Thanks for the reply but I am not sure what you are suggesting here. Would this allow me to go back to 10.2 if I don't like the 10.4 or is this just to backup my recordings? Will it be possible to update to 10.4 and retain the old interface? Will the original recordings play in this new format?

      I would imagine that if I do a restore I will lose any third party software I have installed as well. (IDS, Alldata, PCM Scan, Autoenginuity etc).

      As far as the graphs go I have to agree that you can't really watch that many at one time but it sure is nice to be able to put them in a specific order such as all the O2 sensors together and then the short and long term fuel trims together for each bank. another example would be arranging the graphs to display the four wheel speed sensors and the ABS solenoids related to those wheels during an ABS event. Graphing shift solenoids, commanded gears and ratios at the same time. Even if I don't watch them at the same time, when I replay the recording I can then rearrange them to my desire. I realize that the screen size of the Verdict pretty much limits what you would be able to see but the Verus has lots of room for additional data.

      I tried building a custom data list today on an 08 Avenger. selected just the TPS and APP pids. recorded for several seconds. saved the recording and then went to play it back. The recording plays back in a different format than it was recorded in and now I cant turn off the sweep numbers or drag the cursor accross the screen. As i said you can't rearrange the data anymore and now it lists all the data pids even if I deselected them.

      If you try to graph the pids, you can only graph 3 now in playback. In either record or playback mode, if you graph a pid and it moves to the top of the screen, you can't lock it on the screen and then move the digital pids up or down under it.

      I just confirmed that Pid recordings and Multimeter/Scope recordings captured on the Verus will play back on the Verdict in the different UI so that is good. I would asume that since the Verus will get basically the same software it will work there too.

      The screen on the Verdict is tough to view in the sun, the contrast between the red trace and the black background is hard to see. Yes you can change the display to invert colours and that helps. I don't believe you can customize the colours of the Pid graphs or at least I couldn't find a place to change that.

      Comment

      • Nickb
        DSD
        • Aug 2007
        • 206

        #4
        The back up is just for your recordings. You will not be able to go back to 10.2 nor have an option for the same format as `10.2.
        As for the graghing problems, it is new to me too, so I have to learn again also. I understand the pain in not being able to lock them. I am sure if SO is paying attention to this site, they will offer a software release on here to add that feature in. Also I did notice when you save it, and view it, it zooms the pattern in. You just need to go to the bottom right and zoom out. Also I hope also that they offer to remove sweep on the playback.
        As for the sunlight, I don't think any of the color screens are so hot in the sun. I always use a monitor on my cart. You need to get the docking station for the verdict to use a monitor. Remember, you don't need to be at the car.
        There is unfortunately never going to be perfect tool, but this is a great step in the right direction.
        DSD

        Comment

        • Nickb
          DSD
          • Aug 2007
          • 206

          #5
          Sorry forgot about your downloads. I would phone techline and verify with them if they will be untouched, before you update
          DSD

          Comment

          • phill57
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 474

            #6
            Bluetooth and Keyless

            Thanks Nick

            Is there any indication from SO how long before the bluetooth scanner interface will be available for the Verus?

            I did verify that my recording will play back on the Verdict so they should playback on the 10.4 Verus app. I suppose I could install Shopstream Connect just for playing back scanner recordings in order to have more flexibility with the pids. will that work?

            Comment

            • Nickb
              DSD
              • Aug 2007
              • 206

              #7
              I know the Verus wireless is almost ready to go. SO is probably waiting for the rush of the Verdict to pass. I forgot about SSC, yes that should definately work.
              DSD

              Comment

              • phill57
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2007
                • 474

                #8
                Shop Strem Connect and Verus files

                No, SSC will not play the Verus scanner or scope/multimeter files.

                Comment

                • phill57
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 474

                  #9
                  SSC and Verus Files

                  My mistake. SSC will replay the Verus pid capture with basically the same control capability as the Verus currently has. You can split screen, rearrange the data to your liking, turn off the sweep numbers to increase the graph size.

                  Here are a couple of screen captures of recorded Verus pids, viewed in SSC on the Verus. I have arranged the APP's on the first line, Injector close(mS) and the cruise switch input which I was using as a means of identifying a
                  spot in a recording when a missfire had just occured. I had recorded 15,500 frames of data in this recording and I was also running the labscope in three channel mode in the background at the same time.

                  The third capture is a scope pattern of signals at the PDM I believe breaking down causing the missfire.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • jm43130
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2008
                    • 182

                    #10
                    Dealer Loaded 10.4 On My Verus Monday And Verus Crashed. Reimaging And Reloading Didn't Work . Tech Support Tried Everything. Lost Something Is Download. You Better Backup All Data And Info, Because You Lose All When It Is Reimaged. Tech Support Couldn't Get Mine To Work So I Have To Send Whole Unit In And Get Repaired In California Now. What A Bummer. Guess I'll Be Without For 3 Weeks.

                    Comment

                    • kebo1970
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 212

                      #11
                      Repair Service

                      When A Company Understands That You Have To Use Them; The Service Tends To Be Less Than Desired. I Have Lost Faith In The Repair Department. I Have Not Seen My Solus In A Month. I Guess I'll Get It Back This Year With A Bill. Snap On Knows We Can't Get It Fixed Anywhere Else So Whats The Hurry.

                      Comment

                      • Jay G.
                        Administrator
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 435

                        #12
                        Originally posted by kebo1970
                        When A Company Understands That You Have To Use Them; The Service Tends To Be Less Than Desired. I Have Lost Faith In The Repair Department. I Have Not Seen My Solus In A Month. I Guess I'll Get It Back This Year With A Bill. Snap On Knows We Can't Get It Fixed Anywhere Else So Whats The Hurry.
                        Kebo,
                        Has your dealer check on the repair status?

                        Comment

                        • kebo1970
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 212

                          #13
                          Repairs

                          Yes, Could Get It Back Next Week.

                          Comment

                          • Wheel
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 719

                            #14
                            Originally posted by phill57
                            Good Day.

                            I have been working with the new Verdict for a few days as I mentioned in my other post and I have noted that the next release of the Verus software will change it to a new user interface that is pretty much the same as the Verdict. Although there are a few nice features with this new interface one change that looks like we will get will be the loss of the ability to have up to 16 graphs. It is my understanding that the new UI will only allow 6 graphs and you cannot move them around and put them in any order as the current software allows. I don't know about you but I hate to lose features.

                            There is level one Verus training available on the Snap-On training site: http://www1.snapon.com/diagnostics/u...S/Courses1.htm

                            I wonder if the new software will open the recordings that we have made with the old software. I haven't been able to find out yet. I must have 500 or so pid recordings and 200 or so lab scope recordings.

                            I went back to one of my posts last year on this forum (Verus Wish List) and read through it see how many things have changed. Maybe this is their way of fixing the service worksheet.

                            I would really like to have 10.4, but not until Snap On gives us back what they have taken away - ALL of it. From study of Snap On's 10.4 online tutorials, I think I may like what they've done on the scope side, but from what I've seen, I think what they've done on the scanner side royally sucks. I have heard it said you can't watch 16 graphs at once, anyway. Bull ****! On my Verus I rarely use less than 16 graphs, unless I really want to focus in on something and need a great deal more resolution. I've had the shopstream program on my Verus from day 1, but I like viewing 16 graphs while things are actually happening as I can better observe what is going on when the sympton is occuring live as opposed to later when I may have forgotten details. I've begged for the drag and drop method of organizing pids since the first Genisys came out. Snap on finally gives it to us with the Verus and now takes it away with 10.4. Anyone who has used this knows how handy (and important) it is. Whoever's idea it was to delete this doesn't work on cars. I also liked that when I bought my verus that for the first time I could switch to the all text view and see all at once all the pids that were offered on one screen, no scrolling necessary. This is good for a quick overview to see what pids might be available to help you deal with a particular problem, or help you choose the right data list on cars which have multiple datalists available. It's also good for looking at a lot of data at once KOEO when graphs aren't always necessary, and I like to print these also. I like the 10.2 & back text/graph split screen MUCH better than the new interface. You could see 16 graphs AND text data simultaneously - impossible on the new format. The text list beside let you see where you were scrolled down to on the graphs, and you could scroll the text list to see pids not currently being graphed onscreen.
                            You could also drag a pid off the list at left and drop it on the graph screen and change the graph order that way - WITHOUT having to scroll your graphs! Try that with the new interface. I also think navigation through the old interface was more straightforward and easier than the new way on the scanner side. I admit the new interface is pretty, but pretty doesn't fix cars. I wish they'd left it alone and just ironed out a few minor bugs. To me, it wastes a lot of valuable real estate on the screen. To me, the advantage of Verus" bigger screen is to cram more information on it. What they have done with 10.4 is make the Verus into a clunky, heavy, bloated Verdict with none of the wireless, keyless, etc advantages and only having a 4 channel scope advantage.
                            The purpose for this post is my attempt to tell Snap On and their Verus customers just what was lost ( that I'm aware of) and explain some of the importance of it in hopes that they will return all these features they can as fast as they can. I'll wait and see. I will pass on the free "upgrade" I have coming and will not upgrade again nor buy any more Snap On diagnostic equipment except repair or replacement parts unless or until this is resolved. I hope they never again make the mistake of taking away features of a tool - it's just bad business. The first rule when trying to fix or improve something is to do no harm. Snap on has broken that rule. This is the equivalent of one of us installing a killer sound system in a car and giving it back to the customer without telling them the heating and A/C systems and the power windows that previously worked no longer do, and calling it an upgrade and expect payment for it.
                            I told my Snap On dealer about this as he had no knowledge of the lost features. He is telling his Verus customers about it so they can at least make an informed choice and not be mad at him if they "upgraded" only to find they had lost some of the Verus" very best features.
                            You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

                            Comment

                            • phill57
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 474

                              #15
                              lost features

                              I agree with Wheel 110%. I almost always use 12 to 16 graphs and the ability to organize the PIDs into a list that is in "my order" is extremely helpful. I had previously suggested that it would be nice to be able to build a "custom PID list in a specific order, while working on a vehicle, and be able to save and possibly recall that same list, at least while working on this vehicle. The OTC Genisys will reload the vehicle PID list in the same order and graph/text as was previously used.

                              I use the full pid list on one screen as you mentioned to see what is available and also to look at Freeze Frame data and capture a screen for print. I guess we can't do that now either?

                              I use the split screen to quickly see which pids are being graphed and drag the scroll bar down until I see in the highlighted list, the PIDs I want to graph. I can give several examples of where these features are priceless.

                              I have yet to "upgrade" to 10.4 but given the takeaways I am pretty sure I am going to wait and see what happens.

                              I think most of us Verus power users had no problem with the use of the stylus. I added a tether string so I would not leave it in the car. I noticed when using the Verdict that the interface is designed to be operated with a finger but some icons are still too small to activate with a greasy finger so I would prefer the stylus myself.

                              I would like to think that Snap-On acts on suggestions from their end users but I don't recall asking for some of these "improvements". I think that the 10.2 Verus, (Shopstream), software would not work on the small Verdict screen, because of the limited space, so they decided to drop it in favor of the Verdict format. They probably decided to just go with one software supplier to save money. I sure wish they would ask us what we want first and not take things away.

                              Comment

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