Secondary ignition scoping on COP setups Unfiltered

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  • Witsend
    Banned
    • Nov 2012
    • 2942

    Secondary ignition scoping on COP setups Unfiltered

    Hey Is it me , or this something that is becoming harder and harder to achieve with a Secondary Scope ?
    JFC! , If I posted the damn picture of that expletive , I could burn in Hell for the rest of eternity for the sacrilege.
    First of all using the EEIG100A COP Adapter set with The Counselor 2, it needs a trigger pick up for cylinder 1 that is designed much more compact like a modern low amp clamp that can be placed around a single primary ignition coil ground switched wire of coil #1 in tight quarters.
    Not all COP coils are created equal , some cars I can get a decent usable pattern off of and other cars, Jack Sh@t.
    My guess it's because some California Tree Huggers pressured the EPA to have manufacturers shield and block out most of EMF off the coils because Honeybees and bats aren't finding there way home to their hives and caves , and besides Litigious folk in California seem get cancer way more often than the rest in the other 49 states?
    Isn't Snap On Skunk Works based in California? I would think they would have gotten wind of the problem before it became a Brain Fart for those triing to see a trace.
    Hey, Sorry the post is about a decade too late.
    Last edited by Witsend; 06-27-2014, 02:07 PM.
  • BMW JEDI
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2012
    • 422

    #2
    Excellent post.

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    • Rich Shepherd
      Snap-on D&I
      • Nov 2006
      • 553

      #3
      That kit was designed quite a while back (In the 90's if I remember correctly) to extend the capability of Sun engine analyzers and the Counselor 2 to vehicles with COP.
      Those analyzers expected the secondary signal level input to them to be within a specific range. Most secondary pickups for distributor and waste spark systems were able to deliver the signal level needed by the analyzer.
      With COP systems, the coil design and physical location of the coils made it more difficult to pickup a usable signal. In some cases it was not practical due to the location of the secondary winding in the coil. The windings were just too far from where a capacitive pickup could be placed to detect a usable signal. The EEIG100A kit has variable amplifier built in to it that could increase the signal to a usable level on many coils that were available at the time. The kit also included a set of generic secondary pickups that could be used a on a variety of the common vehicles back then. The key to getting usable results on vehicles where there was a usable signal was in the placement of the pickups on each coil. Its important that the pickups are located the same for each coil so the signal level from each is the same.
      The kit did not however work on every vehicle. The Jeep 4.7 comes to mind. If I remember correctly, it wasn't possible to get a usable signal from them. It's just not practical to do multi cylinder secondary testing on many vehicles these days.
      The Snap-on scopes starting with Modis used a slightly different approach. They used the same generic pickups, but not the amplifier box. They have a variable threshold setting which allows you to set the threshold lower when testing a system with a weak signal.
      This approach will work on the same vehicles for the most part that the EEIG100A kit would work on. Again some will have a usable signal level, some will not. The pickups used are called capacitive pickups. They develop a small charge proportional to the secondary high voltage which is input into the unit. The original Vantage made use of a number of application specific pickups to test individual cylinders. Those pickups can still be used by the Snap-on scopes today. They can be daisy-chained together to do multi cyl testing. Still the same issue though with signal strength. They mainly work on the specific coil applications they were designed for and some similar coils that came later. There is one pickup that has a different design. It is the COP 11 pickup. It is an inductive pickup that can pickup a weaker signal than the capacitive pickups. It produces a different kind of pattern that can only be used view spark duration. Only one pickup can be used. You can't chain more than one together to do multiple coils. You can go from coil to coil looking for the one that is different than the others so it can provide a look at the secondary on some vehicles the capacitive pickups wouldn't work on.

      Comment

      • Witsend
        Banned
        • Nov 2012
        • 2942

        #4
        I am kinda thinking of getting one of these.



        Before I bother again with time of taking out the EEIG100A and Counselor 2 on another COP setup . I need to quickly determine what position on a coil the signal is best, and judging by how far up I need to dial up the sensitivity wheel , determine quickly if an EEIG100A stick or flag adapter would be even able to pick up a trace.I should writing down what worked and what doesn't ,gain level settings , flags or sticks , positioning on coils etc.
        I think I also likely need to fabricate a less bulky more sensitive #1 pickup alternative to use over #1 coil primary ground switched wire than using the bulky red pickup designed to be placed over #1 spark plug secondary cable, surprisingly it's sensitive enough to pick up some primary #1trigger points but it's so hard to fit into tight areas.Maybe I could make something more compact out of a generic low amp probe and a barrel connector and pigtail from a another #1 pickup donor. using banana adapters spliced to the barrel connector pigtail.
        Last edited by Witsend; 06-30-2014, 07:34 AM.

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