How about Awards for Ease of Maintainance

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  • Witsend
    Banned
    • Nov 2012
    • 2942

    How about Awards for Ease of Maintainance

    I think that NASTF should create awards for car manufacturers and score cards for prospective buyers for simplicity of service design excellence of a car model that is made easy to do anything on and do routine fluid level checks and maintenance to instead of just making car cheaper to manufacture , like not having a CAD computer see how much Sh@t it can fit in a sardine can, making it a bigger PITA to do any kind of service on. I think a return to ATF dipstick tubes, coolant block drains and swapable plug and play modules are a start. Reward desirable features beneficial for anyone that wish to keep their a car a long time.
    Last edited by Witsend; 01-12-2018, 03:37 PM.
  • kirkbarrow.garage
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 149

    #2
    Originally posted by Witsend
    I think that NASTF should create awards for car manufacturers and score cards for prospective buyers for simplicity of service design excellence of a car model that is made easy to do anything on and do routine fluid level checks and maintenance to instead of just making car cheaper to manufacture , like not having a CAD computer see how much Sh@t it can fit in a sardine can, making it a bigger PITA to do any kind of service on. I think a return to ATF dipstick tubes, coolant block drains and swapable plug and play modules are a start. Reward desirable features beneficial for anyone that wish to keep their a car a long time.


    I utterly agree, and the first obvious SIMPLE thing is that Mercedes-Benz " should " reinstate having a dipstick on their vehicles, instead of them selling a service ' kit ' of them to purchase just to ensure I got the right amount in the damn thing !

    Comment

    • Crusty
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2007
      • 2450

      #3
      Originally posted by Witsend
      I think that NASTF should create awards for car manufacturers and score cards for prospective buyers for simplicity of service design excellence of a car model that is made easy to do anything on and do routine fluid level checks and maintenance to instead of just making car cheaper to manufacture , like not having a CAD computer see how much Sh@t it can fit in a sardine can, making it a bigger PITA to do any kind of service on. I think a return to ATF dipstick tubes, coolant block drains and swapable plug and play modules are a start. Reward desirable features beneficial for anyone that wish to keep their a car a long time.
      ""SOME"" people like fancy, but, the vast majority of people want a horseless carriage to transport them from A to b and carry the groceries home, RELIABLY along with a controlled and predictable cost of maintenance.
      Engineering 101 = K.I.S.S.

      Comment

      • Crusty
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2007
        • 2450

        #4
        Originally posted by kirkbarrow.garage
        I utterly agree, and the first obvious SIMPLE thing is that Mercedes-Benz " should " reinstate having a dipstick on their vehicles, instead of them selling a service ' kit ' of them to purchase just to ensure I got the right amount in the damn thing !
        Just because something can be made to work with a convoluted design does not mean it's in any way "superior" (what a JOKE-!)
        In fact, the more convoluted something is, the more problems that WILL occur, which is actually INFERIOR.
        There is an inherent beauty in simplicity. Anyone who can't fathom that fact shouldn't be allowed to engineer a ham sandwich.
        Adding in functions and features does not necessitate convoluted.
        The shortest distance is still a straight line.

        Comment

        • Wheel
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2007
          • 719

          #5
          Originally posted by Witsend
          I think that NASTF should create awards for car manufacturers and score cards for prospective buyers for simplicity of service design excellence of a car model that is made easy to do anything on and do routine fluid level checks and maintenance to instead of just making car cheaper to manufacture , like not having a CAD computer see how much Sh@t it can fit in a sardine can, making it a bigger PITA to do any kind of service on. I think a return to ATF dipstick tubes, coolant block drains and swapable plug and play modules are a start. Reward desirable features beneficial for anyone that wish to keep their a car a long time.
          Actually, this is one area our lawmakers need to get involved in - serviceability and quality, and it should effect cars already made. For example, any automatic trans without a dipstick should be warrantied forever, even if abused, that means if the vehicle is still in existence 1000 years from now, running or not, the trans is warrantied including fluid. Also No more plastic on engines where it don't belong.
          maintenance items and expendable parts - filters, spark plugs, etc - should be reachable by a person with average tools and knowledge within a certain time limit or it is a million dollar fine per part times each car made that way. Reflashes should all be warranty - if the software wasn't right in the first place, the manufacturer should take the responsibility and fix it. And no more **** like having to buy an entire module for example, because the built in relay (which should have been separate and replaceable by the owner) went out - another million dollar fine per part times the number of cars made that way.(Draconian problems require draconian solutions I say) Anti theft systems should be OPTIONAL on vehicles, and there should be the means of removing this from a customer's car if not wanted.

          Also the lawmakers need to butt out of certain areas of carmaking because THEY are part of the problem. Such as mandating gas mileage (the market will take care of that naturally); tpms (another light to ignore and a $2 tire gauge would suffice. Neither is of any value if one doesn't act); and if the crash don't kill you the airbag will - should be owner's choice, same for anti-stop brakes and throttle by wire.
          If a customer wants such things they should have them - along with their heftier price tag & maintenance - but one should have the choice. Yes, owners need to know what they are getting into - their problem (and ours) is they don't until it's too late.
          You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

          Comment

          • Wheel
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2007
            • 719

            #6
            Originally posted by Crusty
            ""SOME"" people like fancy, but, the vast majority of people want a horseless carriage to transport them from A to b and carry the groceries home, RELIABLY along with a controlled and predictable cost of maintenance.
            Engineering 101 = K.I.S.S.
            Precisely. With all the garbage put on cars nowdays, mandated or otherwise, it is getting to the point where owning and maintaining a vehicle will no longer be possible, except for the very wealthy.

            If the government would leave it alone, it would be most interesting to see
            how a line of well-built, solid, made with long life and easy maintenance in mind fuel injection and nothing more vehicles would sell in competition with today's offerings. I'd wager they would cost tens of thousands less to buy up front (although I believe many would be willing to pay even more for a better car) and thousands a year less to repair and maintain. I say these would sell like hotcakes and they would finally have to crush and recycle a majority of today's cars due to no sales.
            You can expect the reputation of your business to be no better than the cheapest item or service you are willing to sell. - Wheel

            Comment

            • greasybob
              Senior Member
              • May 2008
              • 1590

              #7
              Be careful for what you wish for. The days of just changing parts or the Dollar parts store being able to correctly diagnose with a simple plugin and code read are long gone. I think this is what we wanted right ? If everything requires programming and setup?.... Good !!! If the education requirements for a tech go up, the labour shortage should lead to higher wages

              Comment

              • Witsend
                Banned
                • Nov 2012
                • 2942

                #8
                There's a difference between choosing a rewarding challenging career as a auto technician, and seeing simple maintenance and used module replacement intentionally being turned into a challenging PITA.

                Comment

                • Steve6911
                  Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 2168

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Witsend
                  There's a difference between choosing a rewarding challenging career as a auto technician, and seeing simple maintenance and used module replacement intentionally being turned into a challenging PITA.
                  Sorry Wit but I'm with Bob. The newer vehicles will keep the "Breakityourselfers" from even touching their vehicles. Not everything is as hard as you make it out to be! Education and correct tooling are a must! What's rewarding about doing simple maintenance? What's rewarding about sticking a used module in a vehicle (unless its your own) and having it work? Putting the time and effort into learning how a system works and then fixing it, that's rewarding. If it costs me money to buy the correct tool, so be it (and I am just a tech not a shop owner). I love when customers brings in a car after a parts store diagnosed it will a cheapo scanner and got it wrong, or a "Tech" just used Identaguess picked the top fix and got it wrong and then I spend the time and the effort on the vehicle and get it right. If everything stayed "simple" people would just use YouTube to see how to do something and they would get it right, that would put you out of business quick!
                  Just my 2 cents

                  Steve

                  Comment

                  • Crusty
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 2450

                    #10
                    Originally posted by greasybob
                    Be careful for what you wish for. The days of just changing parts or the Dollar parts store being able to correctly diagnose with a simple plugin and code read are long gone. I think this is what we wanted right ? If everything requires programming and setup?.... Good !!! If the education requirements for a tech go up, the labour shortage should lead to higher wages
                    While I agree with you in principle, where you say "If everything requires programming and setup?.... Good", there needs to be standardization.
                    Requiring 47 laptops (or even multiple partitions), and a cash bleeding subscription from 47 OE websites, all with different requirements needs to change.

                    Comment

                    • Crusty
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 2450

                      #11
                      [QUOTE=Steve6911;59860]Sorry Wit but I'm with Bob. The newer vehicles will keep the "Breakityourselfers" from even touching their vehicles. Not everything is as hard as you make it out to be! Education and correct tooling are a must! What's rewarding about doing simple maintenance? What's rewarding about sticking a used module in a vehicle (unless its your own) and having it work? Putting the time and effort into learning how a system works and then fixing it, that's rewarding. If it costs me money to buy the correct tool, so be it (and I am just a tech not a shop owner). I love when customers brings in a car after a parts store diagnosed it will a cheapo scanner and got it wrong, or a "Tech" just used Identaguess picked the top fix and got it wrong and then I spend the time and the effort on the vehicle and get it right. If everything stayed "simple" people would just use YouTube to see how to do something and they would get it right, that would put you out of business quick!
                      Just my 2 cents


                      Steve; The parts tossing and guessing has been going on since the days of point ignition and carburetors.
                      I agree, spending the time to properly test, analyse, and diagnose a system is the fun part.
                      Automotive manufacturers unfortunately keep too much information to themselves, and intentionally.
                      Even when we pay for complete information, they somehow manage to keep important little details to themselves.

                      The devil is in the details.
                      A half truth is as good as a lie.

                      Those are two old time expressions that were never truer than in todays' automotive industry.

                      Comment

                      • Witsend
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 2942

                        #12
                        While I agree with you in principle, where you say "If everything requires programming and setup?.... Good", there needs to be standardization.
                        Requiring 47 laptops (or even multiple partitions), and a cash bleeding subscription from 47 OE websites, all with different requirements needs to change.
                        Reply With Quote
                        Agree , whole heartedly about that . I like diagnosing and fixing things others can't , but don't like stupid simple things that once required stupid simple tools being intentionally changed to require me to buy a new pricey proprietary tool to do the job. Normally Toyota which in my opinion has been the best at keeping things De farfignueggenized several years ago to my dismay started using some wanky shaped oil filter cartridge covers and former $4.99 spin on filter becomes a $14.99 cartridge that don't qualify for the $32.99 oil change special at the parts stores. WTF don't like these kind of challenges on a daily basis, and I figured Snappy was probably was whispering in Toyota's ear that they needed to come up with some crazy shaped oil filter housing that require an entirely new tool if they want to see more folk bringing the cars into the dealer for maintenance after their warranty period is up.
                        Last edited by Witsend; 01-16-2018, 08:51 AM.

                        Comment

                        • Steve6911
                          Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 2168

                          #13
                          Wait a minute, we are now working on cars that have autonomous Steering and braking, lane departure, touch screens that do almost very function in the vehicle. Cars with over 40 modules in them and a problem in one of them can take them all down, smart airbags, Turbo chargers and cylinder displacement that change size and your complaining about oil filters????

                          Comment

                          • Witsend
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 2942

                            #14
                            Wait a minute, we are now working on cars that have autonomous Steering and braking, lane departure, touch screens that do almost very function in the vehicle. Cars with over 40 modules in them and a problem in one of them can take them all down, smart airbags, Turbo chargers and cylinder displacement that change size and your complaining about oil filters????
                            Well there you go . That is my complaint. I view Technology as my friend when it can be used to make MY life Easier and more Profitable as a technician , not make it more stressful and cost prohibitive just so I can continue supporting tool companies and auto manufacturers with new specialty tools and subscriptions that seem to be results of brainstorming to create this need for techs to continue buying more new specialty tools and equipment than for any benefit they'll provide the car owner. What good is reactive braking if Thugs can now jump in front of your new car with a gun and it automatically stops for them and then they car jack you because it's easier to car jack a new car at the corner than sit inside one in a parking lot and wait 10 minutes for security access.
                            Last edited by Witsend; 01-16-2018, 09:57 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Witsend
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 2942

                              #15
                              Are we there yet ?

                              Was this an example of OE and tool manufacturer Brain Storming for what people and technicians may really want out of emerging technology to make our lives safer and easier ?

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