How about Awards for Ease of Maintainance

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  • GypsyR
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2017
    • 287

    #16
    I think oil filters are an excellent example. Does anyone in the business NOT know oil needs to be changed regularly? If you build a car, at some point it will be down at the quickie oil change being serviced by a couple of teenagers. Is there any point in making life difficult and more expensive for every single person involved at that point?
    Seriously. Air filters get dirty. Batteries have a limited lifespan. I've long given up on heater cores. It's always seemed that it's a rare jewel of a car that doesn't start life as a heater core on an assembly line and the car is built around it and I understand they don't care about stuff like that. But jeez, special tools to change the oil? Really?

    Lately my personal pet peeve is electrical connectors. Pretty sure really good, if not the best, electrical connectors have already been designed and implemented. But some design engineers need reasons to keep drawing a paycheck so they keep re-inventing that wheel. And not for the better. The ones impossible to remove after filling with dirt are favorite.

    I've long believed that German engineers just hate mechanics and actually go out of their way to design things to be difficult to work on. It's the only thing I have been able to come up with to make sense of some of things they do.

    Comment

    • Witsend
      Banned
      • Nov 2012
      • 2942

      #17
      Hi tech BS I won't buy

      I figure in a few years when these cars start getting older there will be a Cottage industry of people paying good money to remove all this Cr@p from their cars once they get older and start having problems. It's bad enough just getting headlight adjusters to budge after 5 years in the mid west. can't see regular shops investing in a Jim Beam set up let alone a Chinaman one that probably cost a fifth.

      Comment

      • Steve6911
        Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 2168

        #18
        Originally posted by Witsend
        I figure in a few years when these cars start getting older there will be a Cottage industry of people paying good money to remove all this Cr@p from their cars once they get older and start having problems. It's bad enough just getting headlight adjusters to budge after 5 years in the mid west. can't see regular shops investing in a Jim Beam set up let alone a Chinaman one that probably cost a fifth.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP0a45-89qI

        I guess you don't do too much work for Bodyshops if your calling this tool BS. Right now it is only available overseas, I only wish I could afford it when it makes it over here in the spring or summer. If you repair any vehicles with lane departure, mirror cameras, side vehicle detection this is a great tool

        Comment

        • Witsend
          Banned
          • Nov 2012
          • 2942

          #19
          I guess you don't do too much work for Bodyshops if your calling this tool BS. Right now it is only available overseas, I only wish I could afford it when it makes it over here in the spring or summer. If you repair any vehicles with lane departure, mirror cameras, side vehicle detection this is a great tool
          If the tool is multi purpose and doubles for performing 4 wheel alignments i could see a regular automotive repair shop having the added capability , however once the new wears off on these cars and repair is not a warranty based or insurance related repair a lot of people will want to opt to get broken Hi tech Luxury and safety Funk with nag lights disabled or removed if possible if the cars will still run, drive, and be plated. I think by the time a car is 10 years old it's tough enough to get people to pay to change TPMS sensors, a OCS in a passenger seat or a seat belt pre-tensioner if it's not covered by warranty. It's all fine and dandy when it all works when the car is newer but as long as the seat works and the seat belt buckle works , they won't usually want to pay to fix it unless it keeps the car from going from point A to point B. Huge Rims and Sub Woofers maybe, LOL
          Last edited by Witsend; 01-16-2018, 06:45 PM.

          Comment

          • Crusty
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2007
            • 2450

            #20
            Originally posted by Steve6911
            Wait a minute, we are now working on cars that have autonomous Steering and braking, lane departure, touch screens that do almost very function in the vehicle. Cars with over 40 modules in them and a problem in one of them can take them all down, smart airbags, Turbo chargers and cylinder displacement that change size and your complaining about oil filters????
            -Autonomous steering & braking and lane departure that YANKS you back into the path of the huge pothole you're trying to straddle so the fancy looking mag alloy wheel doesn't FRACTURE to pieces and jerk the vehicle INTO the path of the 18 wheeler coming at you on the other side of a two lane blacktop... This effluent from the south end of a north bound moose is supposed to be a good thing-????
            -Vehicles with 40 modules and one of them takes a hissy fit and ALL the other systems, including the safety systems, go into a FAIL mode and you're stuck in the middle of the road at 3:00-am where the nearest street light is about 20 miles away.... This is another good thing-????
            -Touch screens that DISTRACT the operator..... PROVEN fact that distracted driving has overtaken drunk driving as the cause of the majority of collisions.... This is a GOOD thing-??? (Well, maybe good for the body shops, and insurance companies to hike rates up)
            -Smart airbags.... Can you say TAKATA-??
            -Turbo chargers.... can you say bearing failure from extended oil drain intervals-??
            -Cylinder displacement solonoids & lifters.... can you say MAJOR repair cost-???
            -Gasoline Direct Injection.... can you say MAJOR carbon fouling of valves-???
            -Variable Valve Timing..... probably the most common cause of MIL lights and misfire codes these days.... This is a good thing-????
            Engineering 101 (in ANY sub-field of engineering-!!!)
            K.I.S.S.
            Both Einstein and Hawking have agreed that there is BEAUTY and an ELEGANCE in simplicity of design.
            Things DO NOT have to be convoluted to achieve desired results.

            Comment

            • Steve6911
              Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 2168

              #21
              Well, you guys just look at things different then I do. Technology is here to stay and its only going to get harder. My thoughts are I can either "try" to keep up with things the best I can and tool up for it or get out of the way. Also these tools are not just for when the vehicle comes off of warranty, I am working on these systems NOW! Collision repair is not under warranty, and I do work for several body shops. I have to make targets myself, spend hours figuring out the measurements or call someone I know that knows the system so I can get the job done and done right. Even years down the road customers I work for will not wants these systems disabled when their 17 year old kid is driving their cars/truck. Cars are much safer then ever before with these systems and as much as you wank they will not go away and if you spend the time and learn them it can be VERY PROFITABLE as even the bodyshops hate to drag the vehicle to the dealer. Also it doesn't have to be a collision repair, I have done many Uconnect touch screens on vehicles out of warranty already, people want their toys and they will pay to have them fixed, again I learned the system and my shop makes tons of cash fixing these. Again "my" thoughts are no matter how much I don't like having to spend all this time learning and all this money on tools I can either do that and do my best to keep up or in the future go work at a quick lube....... but then I would have to buy more filter wrenches, cups and sockets.

              Comment

              • Crusty
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2007
                • 2450

                #22
                Originally posted by GypsyR
                I think oil filters are an excellent example. Does anyone in the business NOT know oil needs to be changed regularly? If you build a car, at some point it will be down at the quickie oil change being serviced by a couple of teenagers. Is there any point in making life difficult and more expensive for every single person involved at that point?
                Seriously. Air filters get dirty. Batteries have a limited lifespan. I've long given up on heater cores. It's always seemed that it's a rare jewel of a car that doesn't start life as a heater core on an assembly line and the car is built around it and I understand they don't care about stuff like that. But jeez, special tools to change the oil? Really?

                Lately my personal pet peeve is electrical connectors. Pretty sure really good, if not the best, electrical connectors have already been designed and implemented. But some design engineers need reasons to keep drawing a paycheck so they keep re-inventing that wheel. And not for the better. The ones impossible to remove after filling with dirt are favorite.

                I've long believed that German engineers just hate mechanics and actually go out of their way to design things to be difficult to work on. It's the only thing I have been able to come up with to make sense of some of things they do.
                Can't argue any of your points. The only thing I might change tack on is the convoluted designs some engineers come up with, thinking that if they can make a FUBAR system work it is somehow "superior", when in fact it is actually INFERIOR.

                Comment

                • Witsend
                  Banned
                  • Nov 2012
                  • 2942

                  #23
                  I think that Max Head Room guy that Hi Jacked a television station years ago works for one of the German car manufacturers.

                  Comment

                  • GypsyR
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2017
                    • 287

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Steve6911
                    Well, you guys just look at things different then I do. Technology is here to stay and its only going to get harder.
                    Not really. We are constantly tooling up and schooling to stay as current as we have to. It's just nice to bitch about it to others who understand. I saw Crusty's complaint list and identified with it 100%.

                    Being a transmission focused shop, we've managed to duck and dodge dealing with TPMS stuff. But we had to send one too many down to the next shop recently and that was that for the boss and he bought a TPMS tool. Somehow I happened to be in the line of fire and now I'm the TPMS guy. We've even had two shops pass such work onto US in the short time since we started messing with it.

                    By the way, if you've not been paying attention, TPMS isn't for the consumer really. It's for the mandated stability control systems everything has to have these days. Stability control doesn't work for normal driving unless it can tell that all the tires have adequate pressure.

                    Comment

                    • Steve6911
                      Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 2168

                      #25
                      Originally posted by GypsyR

                      By the way, if you've not been paying attention, TPMS isn't for the consumer really. It's for the mandated stability control systems everything has to have these days. Stability control doesn't work for normal driving unless it can tell that all the tires have adequate pressure.

                      Not 100% True, Read this link and look hard at the Firestone recall



                      Fords idea when people complained about the Explorers feeling to "Truckie" was to lower the tire pressure and well below spec. Made for a smoother ride and caused tire failure. Firestone happened to be the tire that came on these vehicles. Also many of the earlier vehicles that had tpms didn't have stability control. As the systems became more advanced tpms, abs, stability and traction controls have all been linked together. Again look at the link and you will see that tpms was mandated BEFORE stability control.
                      Hmmm.... look at that I guess I have been paying attention.

                      Comment

                      • Witsend
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 2942

                        #26
                        Not 100% True, Read this link and look hard at the Firestone recall



                        Fords idea when people complained about the Explorers feeling to "Truckie" was to lower the tire pressure and well below spec. Made for a smoother ride and caused tire failure. Firestone happened to be the tire that came on these vehicles. Also many of the earlier vehicles that had tpms didn't have stability control. As the systems became more advanced tpms, abs, stability and traction controls have all been linked together. Again look at the link and you will see that tpms was mandated BEFORE stability control.
                        Hmmm.... look at that I guess I have been paying attention.
                        Keeping them tires close to maximum psi delivers better mpg, longer tire life, and BBBOB(Better Boob Bounce Over Bumps)
                        Last edited by Witsend; 01-18-2018, 12:05 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Crusty
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 2450

                          #27
                          Regarding the TPMS FIASCO, The manufacturer built a vehicle NOBODY would by because you needed a kidney belt to ride in the thing.
                          So instead of making a proper suspension, they softened the ride by softening the tires. The VERY SAME TIRES for the 2 month production run that was fingered for the failures, when put on GM and CHRYSLER products with a cold minimum spec of 35-psi DID NOT BLOW OUT.
                          The Ford spec for the Explorers was 26-psi.
                          That's right, NINE psi less than other vehicle manufacturers-!!! and FOUR psi less than accepted industry standards-!!!
                          Circa 1990, many years before the explorer flipping over farse, the tire company I spent some time with stated never less than 30-psi. The 30 psi was a tire industry standard.
                          A tire with low pressure, continued to be driven on, will overheat the sidewall AND BLOW OUT-!
                          Pirrelli, Yokohama, BFG, Goodyear, you name it. Run it low on air and it will blow out.
                          So, we had VEHICLES FLIPPING OVER-!!!
                          The vehicles were not flipping over due to air outs.
                          Air outs have been happening for almost 100 years prior to this farse.
                          The REASON, the ROOT CAUSE for the vehicles flipping over was, Short wheelbase, narrow wheelbase, high centre of gravity.
                          So instead of people understanding the machinery they are operating, and knowing when to check and set tire pressures properly, knowing when things are not right and check things such as tire pressures, they WANT ALL THEIR TOYS and they do not want to PAY ATTENTION to what they are doing.
                          The "supposed" solution-??
                          Mandate I.D. 10 T. systems to convolute things.
                          YEARS ago I said ABS brakes and AirBags are a bail out for a BAD DRIVER-!
                          So what happened once everything had ABS brakes and AirBags-??
                          People drove faster, TAILGATING the vehicle in front of them, blissfully flying along, saying to themselves, "I have ABS brakes and AirBags, I CAN DRIVE LIKE A MORON" because technology says I can.
                          MAKE PEOPLE LEARN TO DRIVE BEFORE THEY'RE GIVEN A LICENSE-!
                          Technology is NOT going to solve the problems. Technology is bringing in ANOTHER LEVEL OF FAILURES.
                          Every single customer who has purchased a new vehicle in the last 10 years IS PEED OFF with all the add-on "effluent" stuffed down their throats by manufacturers who can sell vehicle for more money with all the B/S add-ons.
                          Only the crowd following LEMMINGS "want" all this stuff added onto their cars.

                          Comment

                          • Witsend
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 2942

                            #28
                            Old Ford Exploders

                            I love my old 95 Explorer with rack and pinion, surprisingly it can turn a tighter steering radius than a 99 Saturn coupe. Truck-ish it is . If you go over 70mph on the highway it seems a real vibratory POS at speeds over 75mph , but it's nice to toss in 4WD and be able to get up to speed and out of harms way quicker in the winter conditions.Still rides and steers better than a CJ or straight front axle jeep and more practical and secure than a pickup truck with an open bed for most hauling tasks I need it for.Don't think I would give this any award for ease of maintenance but there's more than a couple Alquida looking folk that might think a pickup truck might not work better than a 95 Exploder for their needs
                            Last edited by Witsend; 01-18-2018, 06:36 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Crusty
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 2450

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Witsend
                              I love my old 95 Explorer with rack and pinion, surprisingly it can turn a tighter steering radius than a 99 Saturn coupe. Truck-ish it is . If you go over 70mph on the highway it seems a real vibratory POS at speeds over 75mph , but it's nice to toss in 4WD and be able to get up to speed and out of harms way quicker in the winter conditions.Still rides and steers better than a CJ or straight front axle jeep and more practical and secure than a pickup truck with an open bed for most hauling tasks I need it for.Don't think I would give this any award for ease of maintenance but there's more than a couple Alquida looking folk that might think a pickup truck might not work better than a 95 Exploder for their needs
                              Mama Bear had a 1995 Explorer too. Not a horrible vehicle as long as you respected its capabilities and limitations, AND maintained it.
                              As soon as they went to the 1996 with THREE timing chains, one of which was at the back of the engine against the firewall, they became a convoluted "turd" (Yes I'm using you patented term-!! LOL)
                              Saw 10 times the number of failures of the 4.0 over the next 8 years.
                              Brilliant.....

                              Comment

                              • Steve6911
                                Moderator
                                • Feb 2007
                                • 2168

                                #30
                                Jay

                                What is going on? Within this tread I make a post stating some of the modern systems on vehicles, to show how things are getting more complex, and in my opinion if a tech wants to stay a tech and not a "lube" tech you had to try and keep up with the learning and tooling and no matter much complaining is done it will not change. I never stated if I thought they were good or bad, yet you went off topic and started slamming all these systems. Then I make another post to try and show another member that he was incorrect about why TPM systems are in todays vehicles and you go off topic again slamming peoples driving, calling them Morons and Lemmings. stating the issue wasn't the tires but the vehicle.
                                Did Wit travel up north with some of his Kool-Aid?!?!?!?! Your not going to start talking about Black Stealth Helicopters in cloaking mode circling over head and come out of your off the grind cabin wearing a foil hat are you?!?!?!?! We already have Wit for all of that!

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