Another 10.4 shortfall.

[phill57]

Well

I had my unit updated to 10.4 Friday and then had the service update installed. I also bought the wirless S3 module. I have only had a chance to use it on 3 vehicles. I have had a couple of error messages but nothing that seems to serious yet.

I did notice that there are a couple of things that could be improved besides the graphing and scrolling/split screen issues. I thought they brought back the capability to view 16 graphs but I couldn't find it.

If you save a scope or graphing multimeter preset and add instructions in the comments box area there is no way to view the comments when reloading. For example I have saved at least a dozen scope presets using multiple channels with explicit instructions in the comments on how to connect the various leads and to where. Can't view that when reloading now. Even the original factory presets that had instructions are not shown, unless i'm missing something.

The data manager file management sucks. I have around 300 scanner recordings and several hundred scope or multimeter recordings. You use to be able to sort through these by date created or by file name. Now the program doesn't show the date the file was created or provide you with any details. It is very difficult to find anthing from the past especially the screen captures since you don't even get to name them when they are automatically saved.

I also could not find how to create a work order as before. This is probably just me though. In the old UI you added a new vehicle and entered the information such as the customer name, plate etc as you were id'ing the vehicle. Can this still be done?

[Bob's Garage]

Answers to some questions

Well

I had my unit updated to 10.4 Friday and then had the service update installed. I also bought the wirless S3 module. I have only had a chance to use it on 3 vehicles. I have had a couple of error messages but nothing that seems to serious yet.
Phill, what error messages did you see? We would be interested, can you post some screenshots?


I did notice that there are a couple of things that could be improved besides the graphing and scrolling/split screen issues. I thought they brought back the capability to view 16 graphs but I couldn't find it.

At the top of the screen it should have "Graph View" on the page when you are graphing, don't expect to be able to arrange the graphs at all. Even if you go back to the first data screen and rearrang the graphs there (as much as you can) it will not affect the arrangement until you change the number of graphs you are viewing on the data page.

If you save a scope or graphing multimeter preset and add instructions in the comments box area there is no way to view the comments when reloading. For example I have saved at least a dozen scope presets using multiple channels with explicit instructions in the comments on how to connect the various leads and to where. Can't view that when reloading now. Even the original factory presets that had instructions are not shown, unless i'm missing something.

The data manager file management sucks. I have around 300 scanner recordings and several hundred scope or multimeter recordings. You use to be able to sort through these by date created or by file name. Now the program doesn't show the date the file was created or provide you with any details. It is very difficult to find anthing from the past especially the screen captures since you don't even get to name them when they are automatically saved.

I use the windows utility to view screenshots and Shopstream Coonect to organize and view scope & data files. Download it from the Snap-on diagnostics website, it is free and although Verus is not an approved platform it still works fine. This is not the same "Shopstream Connect Data Viewer" that is part of the Atlas Program.

I also could not find how to create a work order as before. This is probably just me though. In the old UI you added a new vehicle and entered the information such as the customer name, plate etc as you were id'ing the vehicle. Can this still be done?

You can enter Customers name and some other things on the ID page, you can get to by clicking on the ID at the bottom of the page of scanner or in Vehicle History and click on "View" at the top left of that page.

20110327-0550-1.jpg

20110327-0553-1.jpg

[greasybob]

How to view 10.4 in 10.2 format

Thanks Bobs Garage, I forgot all about that. If you view movies you made on 10.4 and view them back through the Shop Stream down load, they appear in the 10.2 format sssshhhhh!! don't tell Snap On. As in the scanner shot below I took on the 10.4. It's also much easier to find things there than in the 10.4 data manager. Unfortunately the draggable key board is gone. I'll have to get a USB keyboard now to save into paint.

[Bob's Garage]

SSC suggestion

Hi Bob,

Yes, SSC is still an awesome program. Sometimes, it provides sanity for me.

Bob

[phill57]

10.4 glitches and things

You can enter Customers name and some other things on the ID page, you can get to by clicking on the ID at the bottom of the page of scanner or in Vehicle History and click on "View" at the top left of that page.

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Thanks Bob for that input. That took some time to put that reply together and its much appreciated. I did find the ability to edit the customer work sheet. It's just a different process than before or in a slightly different order but I can work with that.

I also found how to view the graphs with more than 6 on the screen. you must select the items you want to graph, one at a time and then click view graphs. I know you cannot rearrange them like before and that sucks as we all know.

As for the data manager issues go, I agree that the SSC software works much better, (the way 10.2 used to) and I already have it installed on the Verus.

The presets that I spoke about don't apply to the SSC software though. You can set up any configuration of the lab scope to do a specific test and then save the configuration as a preset that will be in the list of Labscope or multimeter presets. When you save the configuration, you can save instructions in the comment box to assist in setting up the same test in the future. I don't think the presets open in SSC so I can't show you what I am trying to explain.

I think the screen captures should be saved and sorted by date from the most recent at the beginning of the list instead of the way they are now with the oldest first. I guess I will just use SSC or windows picture viewer for the screen captures.

I did get a few errors as I mentioned. On one occasion I get the following error after accidentally going into the graph edit screen.20110325-2117-1.jpg
On another occasion I was reading history fault codes in the ABS system and could not find a way to back out of this screen. The vechicle was an 03 Rendezvous.
20110326-1008-1.jpg

After recording a fairly large data list, 8711 frames I received this message:
20110326-2219-1.jpg
20110327-0820-1.jpg

I was able to view error details buy I have no idea what they mean. see below: This happened twice. Once Saturday evening and then again Sunday morning. In both cases I was able to continue without restarting the software or rebooting.

Thanks

[Bob's Garage]

Error messages

Hey Phill,

Good feedback on the error reporting.

One last thing. Can you hold in the "S" button in on your Verus and a System State Information" log file will be created . Just hold that button in until the SSI message comes up and post it then the software guys at Snap-on will be able to see what happened in those events.

You may be able to attach it to this Forum. I know that is a lot but it may help them to decide what is up with your tool.

Of course a Service Release is due very very soon.

May be Jay G will see this thread and your posting and be able to submit those errors to his guys in San Jose.

Good Job.

Thanks, Bob

[Earl Davis]

Hi Greasy Bob,

What version of shopstream are you using with the Verus?

Thanks
Earl

[Wheel]

Phill57, I am aware of the preset feature you are talking about. If you will post up screen captures of how 10.4 does it ( the wrong way), then I will try to post up how 10.2 does it (the right way) in answer (may take a day or 2) so everyone can see the difference and Snap On can see yet another reason we want 10.2 back instead of wasting time with 10.4.
I have an extensive list of presets, too so this feature is mega- important to me. Thanks for bringing this up.
They ruined data manager too? If you could post an example of this also, I'll post 10.2's version for comparison when I can.

Here is one of my presets as presented by shopstream (10.2 similar)
to illustrate what I think Phill57 is saying 10.4 is missing. We need it back yesterday.
Clipboard01.jpg

[Wheel]

You can enter Customers name and some other things on the ID page, you can get to by clicking on the ID at the bottom of the page of scanner or in Vehicle History and click on "View" at the top left of that page.

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my$.02 on this:
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[phill57]

Presets missing comments area.

Phill57, I am aware of the preset feature you are talking about. If you will post up screen captures of how 10.4 does it ( the wrong way), then I will try to post up how 10.2 does it (the right way) in answer (may take a day or 2) so everyone can see the difference and Snap On can see yet another reason we want 10.2 back instead of wasting time with 10.4.
I have an extensive list of presets, too so this feature is mega- important to me. Thanks for bringing this up.
They ruined data manager too? If you could post an example of this also, I'll post 10.2's version for comparison when I can.

Here is one of my presets as presented by shopstream (10.2 similar)
to illustrate what I think Phill57 is saying 10.4 is missing. We need it back yesterday.
[ATTACH]6117[/ATTACH]

Thanks Wheel.

I thought it was just me. I did have several dozen saved presets that I had created with explicit instructions that were often quite detailed. You could add as much comments as you wanted and still can but with the current UI the comments are not visable prior to loading the preset as they were before. They are nowhere to be found once the meter/labscope loads either.

here are a couple pf examples with the current UI?
20110328-2053-2.jpg

Note that there are no details or comments. I know this format is better for navigation with your fingers that is why the icon based UI I guess.

Here I saved a "Preset Example" showing the entry of comments during the save process:20110328-2053-1.jpg
to be viewed later to save time in the future.

This feature is great for component testing or system tests that are not in the CTM or are not correct. This greatly helps other techs who are not as lab scope friendly make the best use of the tool. The data manager should have the ability to view the saved files/presets as icon based or with details as the windows file manager does. then you could sort the saved files as before by date. Let's not push for thumbnails as this would most likely tax the limited resources.

Oh and by the way I really miss this feature:20110109-1357-1.jpg

On another note I really like the current lab scope operation. It is quite good and so far have not had issues. I see that the ability to view a graphed dutycycled signal now has the ability to switch the trigger slope thus interpreting the reading correctly as the manufacturer expected. The old 10.2 meter had the ability but it did not work to switch the slope. The meter would always read the low voltage as the "on" time instead of the high voltage.

[phill57]

16 graphs

I realized how to view up to 16 graphs while viewing live data but you must select each pid to graph one at a time. Very time consuming and then you onlys see those specific graphs. I sill don't know if the other unseen pids are being recorded. You still cannot view more than 6 when replaying a recording though. Yes I know, use SSC to do this.

Snap-on, please I would like the split screen feature with text/graphs back. It is/was very convenient and time saving. A combination of both would be nice.

[Orevin]

I realized how to view up to 16 graphs while viewing live data but you must select each pid to graph one at a time. Very time consuming and then you onlys see those specific graphs. I sill don't know if the other unseen pids are being recorded.

All PIDs in your current data list are being recorded, graphed or not.

You still cannot view more than 6 when replaying a recording though. Yes I know, use SSC to do this.

Snap-on, please I would like the split screen feature with text/graphs back. It is/was very convenient and time saving. A combination of both would be nice.

[greasybob]

I must be stupid, I still haven't been able to get more than 4 graphs at a time. Sometimes you get single column of of data and sometimes you get two columns, can you change this too ?

[greasybob]

I GOT IT !!!!!! Pick the data you want to gragh then scroll the graph up and pick another pid to graph and scroll it up, after you've chosen all the pids you want to graph then hit the graph view tab and they all appear. Sorry I'm a little slow.

[phill57]

graphing data

I GOT IT !!!!!! Pick the data you want to gragh then scroll the graph up and pick another pid to graph and scroll it up, after you've chosen all the pids you want to graph then hit the graph view tab and they all appear. Sorry I'm a little slow.

Hello Bob.

No you are not slow at all. The scrolling up and down sucks. Eveytime I try to use my fingers to do this the pid switches to a graph and jumps to the top. Reminds me of the Genysis.

I have been viewing your recordings on Youtube and following some of your comments on the labscope forum, good stuff!

So you have switched to 10.4 also. There are some good features to this UI but there is definately room for improvement.