using a fog machine as a smoke machine

[Witsend]

With cheap priced used Evap smoke machines in short in short supply around here, I decided to chance a party fog machine I bought off Craigslist for $20 that works good enough with hoses cobbled to it to find the larger leaks and blow smoke out my @zz on demand if I can't fix this Honda.
I have a 2000 Accord V6 here with a P1456, where my vacuum tests on the Bypass, solonoid, purge , and vent solenoids all check out , and Fuel Tank Pressure sensor responds in kpa with vacuum change.The Filler tube and cap were replaced within last 2 years at dealership.
When I smoked system I saw a little smoke come out from under cover around Tank bypass valve, next to canister but no smoke if I actuated the bypass solenoid. The fuel take pressure sensor has 2 hoses attached to it and the smaller hose has a tee with an uncapped open port on the tee , that has no hose near by to attach to it. I'm wondering if this is supposed to be open to atmospere, capped,or there is a hose missing from something trapped somewhere out of sight? Not seeing any detailed pictures with the tee and hose routing.

[greasybob]

Did you check out the TSB for P1456. Thermo expansion Explained...sort of

[Witsend]

I'm thinking I'll just take my lumps on this one because the cause is not evident and I have way too much time spent on it already. If it were my car I would slam a canister vent valve and call it a day.

[Witsend]

Bob, thanks for the TSB but I gave the car back to the customer, with no charge to his wallet, with his engine light off and the cap tight, after driving fine and seeing the fuel trims are normal. Seems the test lane near me lets some cars pass with an evap monitor still incomplete, as long as the rest of the monitors have completed, no codes set or pending , and no past failures at the test lane.
My guess is they are getting sick tired of retesting all the vehicles they have to continually, retest, reject as not ready yet, and people get mad after driving a Turd over a hundred miles in a week and Venus hasn't aligned with Mars yet to allow the right conditions for the ECM to decide the time is right, kinda like a woman

[Witsend]

you get what you pay for holds true

I'm happy I only paid $20 for a used Fog Machine and , that It can locate something like a gross leak on an intake manifold close to the smoke source, however on a small leak on an evap system from front of the car to the back , much of the smoke seems to condense back to fluid, in cool metal tubes so you got as much chance of finding a small evap leak with a Halloween fog machine as a fart has in a windstorm. I believe The smoke generated from the fog solution is mostly steam because the smoke can't choke folk in a stage setting. The Machine also cannot maintain a steady supply of smoke because the switch cuts off after a certain time , then resets and no regulate able pressure.

[sbreland73]

Reminds me of the older Budweiser commercials "Real men of Genius!"

[Witsend]

Reminds me of the older Budweiser commercials "Real men of Genius!"
10-13-2014 10:28 PM

LoL, I finally bit the bullet today and ordered something nicer from another man of genius after saving up pennies for 3 years for this moment.


The shop air pressure attached to the unit can be up to ? psi.
Does that propane grill regulator attached to the paint can actually bring pressure down to industry accepted EVAP test pressure of commercial units ? ? psi., (At least low enough to not possibly damage LDP diaphragms or start overcoming tank pressure relief valves and gas tank caps Hopefully)
Your description doesn't specify what the regulated dead ended pressure at hose end will be, Thanks, Jim

Hello Jim,

Thanks for contacting us with your questions.

Input air pressure to the regulator can be up to 225 psi. The regulator takes the pressure down to 11" WC which is 0.47 psi. This pressure is well within the specifications for EVAP testing and truly comparable to the "commercial" non turbo boost testing units. Most commercial units test at the exact same 0.47 psi.

Regards,
Dennis

[Witsend]

Kind of a Rube Goldberg set up and it could run a battery down powering the thing from off the car battery, but with a battery charger on the battery , It's fused and I can't see a problem with a fire happening if I keep enough baby oil in thing to keep the heating element well submerged out of air and likely just run it a several minutes at a time any way.

[GypsyR]

That rig reminds me of when we had an old paint can with an air fitting epoxied to it and a little hose in the lid.
We'd light about half an oily shop rag, blow out the flames, and shut it in the can. Regulate some air pressure and smoke test away.

[Witsend]

That rig reminds me of when we had an old paint can with an air fitting epoxied to it and a little hose in the lid.
We'd light about half an oily shop rag, blow out the flames, and shut it in the can. Regulate some air pressure and smoke test away.

Lol , hate to have a errant spark ember from the still smoldering rag go into a gas tank with that set up. I get a kick out of you tube video of Scottie Kilmer using a cigar , but I usually feel like I'm turning green before I can find the leak by that method .

[Witsend]

Kind of a Rube Goldberg set up and it could run a battery down powering the thing from off the car battery, but with a battery charger on the battery , It's fused and I can't see a problem with a fire happening if I keep enough baby oil in thing to keep the heating element well submerged out of air and likely just run it a several minutes at a time any way.

Actually I was wrong about the heating element being submerged under the oil . You are instructed to only put 16 oz of mineral oil in the bottom of can while pouring some of it over the wicking material that arches down to the bottom of can to wick up oil , with the heating wire coiled around the wicking material. I tried it and it makes smoke ok, but maybe will make even more as the wicking material blackens after more use or I put a different vacuum connector on the end with a 1/4" opening than the existing 1/8" hole on the end. I was worried about the paint can eventually getting metal fatigued and splitting where the regulator mounts to the side , so I cut an old rubber exhaust insulator in half and tie strapped it to the can just under the regulator and that bolsters the area and provides better confidence for the paint can to support the regulator long term without metal fatigue happening to the mounting area of the paint can seam, I also attached a $6 HF 1/4" swivel hose whip ,so I don't have a larger heavier 3/8" shop hose with air chuck hanging straight off the end that could tip the can over. The paint can smoke machine was $75 including shipping , a quart of mineral oil was around $10, Swivel hose whip about $6.50, 3 HF zip ties about 30 cents, an old exhaust insulator was free. Always a Possibility I might need to use my fire extinguisher sooner or later , but for now this budget set up will have to make do.

[greasybob]

Now you just need a flow meter and a pressure vacuum gage.

[Witsend]

Now you just need a flow meter and a pressure vacuum gage.

Your right ,but I could still T in a vacuum gauge and an Oscar Meyer Wiener Whistle to tell if the system is sealed or not.
Seriously, I do think a .010 leak or greater probably would be plainly audible from inside paint can with a mechanics stethoscope as the regulated air pressure enters the can.

[Witsend]

Budget Paint Can Smoke machine

Second Guessing Myself with a 97 Chevy Cavalier Rust Turd,P0442 small evap leak. Everything is rusty, but so far checked out except what I thought to be a bad gas cap , tried a brand new NAPA gas cap , still hear , smell , and confirm Soap bubble beneath cap at leakage at filler cap area. Oring seating area of filler tube is clean but tube looks rusty beneath it. Hate to condemn filler tube if that BarBQ regulator pressure on paint can Smoke Machine pressure is just slightly too high and overcoming the vent of the fuel cap. Anyone know what the max Evap test pressure should be. I think it is in millimeters of water, but can it be converted to a PSI and checked on a vacuum pressure gauge ? Maybe there is a adjustment screw on the paint can regulator I can back off a quarter turn or something?

[Witsend]

Eye has not seen but ear has heard

... what God has made to fix Da Turds. Dirtyrotonme 9:11.
Guess I shouldn't have second guessed my $75 paint can smoke machine. Under better lighting for my Old eyes, especially with help from smartphone camera zoom , I am very confident the hair line cracks in plastic of the Oring sealing area of the filler tube is the leak source and not the LP regulator pressure is too high for the fuel cap vent. Seems to me that a spray bottle with a high concentration of dish soap in it in the area that I smell and see smoke near by is what seems to pinpoint the exact leak source when dealing with smaller leaks than just relying on seeing smoke alone.I often turn off the smoke but continue the regulated air flow. Highly concentrated Soapy water has worked great for me to find some AC refrigerant leaks also.