Pattern Failure Fixes on Forums and You Tube

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  • Witsend
    Banned
    • Nov 2012
    • 2942

    Pattern Failure Fixes on Forums and You Tube

    In my opinion it is often better than searching for Manufacturer TSB's in Auto Repair Software.
    Why? Because all OE's are very cautious about admitting certain parts of the cars are POS and prone to failure, and the dealer's make money on replacement of the parts after the warranties are up. They aren't going to simply release a TSB and say check this known area first before wasting time digging elsewhere, because it could result in an expensive NTSB recall for them to do so . If you are not an expert on a particular car, Do not scoff at experience of some of the Enthusiast Forums and videos put on YouTube to save you time .



  • Tech_A
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 115

    #2
    Mercedes, Gut Gebaut

    Nice find Witsend, Mercedes is a fine product well worth the money.

    As a young Technician I was taught a certain workflow in the diagnostic process.

    1. Visual Inspection
    2a. Record symptoms and when the fault occurs.
    2b. Scan for codes, record freeze frame, and reset codes.
    3. Duplicate fault.
    4. Check Tsb's for symptoms or codes.
    5. No Tsb's, follow fault code or symptom diagnosis.
    6. No information dig into diagnosis wagon.

    In the real world, my shop manager actually endorsed the use of forums and youtube as an information source, but I was stubborn and wanted to find the fault out on my own.

    What amuses me most with the technology now is nobody reads or attempts to do things on their own anymore. I've noticed people try to read an instructional article and say f*ck it, I'm going to "youtube" this. I just hope there is still an abundance of people in the future willing to share their experiences and knowledge, because what will we do when we run out of youtube instructions?

    Comment

    • sbreland73
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 1077

      #3
      Originally posted by Tech_A
      I just hope there is still an abundance of people in the future willing to share their experiences and knowledge, because what will we do when we run out of youtube instructions?
      I agree. If everyone ends up looking for answers when no one is providing them.......................
      S. Breland

      Comment

      • Witsend
        Banned
        • Nov 2012
        • 2942

        #4
        This is the Information Age

        As a young Technician I was taught a certain workflow in the diagnostic process.

        1. Visual Inspection
        2a. Record symptoms and when the fault occurs.
        2b. Scan for codes, record freeze frame, and reset codes.
        3. Duplicate fault.
        4. Check Tsb's for symptoms or codes.
        5. No Tsb's, follow fault code or symptom diagnosis.
        6. No information dig into diagnosis wagon.
        It comes to #1 on the list, Which is visual inspection. There are lots of dense packed areas to look you ain't going to see Sh@t !GET AN IDEA TO KNOW WHERE TO VISUALLY INSPECT FIRST. TSB's LOL!!!Are you going to trust the OE manufacturer to put a TSB out to inspect a common problem area that could result in a costly recall and a refund of cash for hundreds of Gravy jobs performed at the dealer level, or Enthusiasts and knowledgeable technicians willing to share.
        Yeah I had Communication issues to retrieve codes, I replaced a weak battery and still no crank no start. Power Probe2 was acting more funky than usual testing fuses at the RCM in the engine compartment, Checked TSB's Nothing (at least for Chrysler, didn't check Mercedes CLK but -Checked You Tube, Bingo! The time it saved me , I was able to waste time watching some bouncing boobies while having a beer instead of heading into battle against overwhelming odds. And am thankful for the contributions of those who have gone before me.
        Last edited by Witsend; 05-14-2015, 11:52 AM.

        Comment

        • Tech_A
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 115

          #5
          Originally posted by Witsend
          It comes to #1 on the list, Which is visual inspection. There are lots of dense packed areas to look you ain't going to see Sh@t !GET AN IDEA TO KNOW WHERE TO VISUALLY INSPECT FIRST. TSB's LOL!!!Are you going to trust the OE manufacturer to put a TSB out to inspect a common problem area that could result in a costly recall and a refund of cash for hundreds of Gravy jobs performed at the dealer level, or Enthusiasts and knowledgeable technicians willing to share.
          Yeah I had Communication issues to retrieve codes, I replaced a weak battery and still no crank no start. Power Probe2 was acting more funky than usual testing fuses at the RCM in the engine compartment, Checked TSB's Nothing (at least for Chrysler, didn't check Mercedes CLK but -Checked You Tube, Bingo! The time it saved me , I was able to waste time watching some bouncing boobies while having a beer instead of heading into battle against overwhelming odds. And am thankful for the contributions of those who have gone before me.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9nkG_HnY38
          That is just how I was taught, with the lack of information you need an arsenal of diagnostic tests, experience, and skill, which in technical school we dubbed "The Wagon". When your wagon is empty you're SOL. Ive been there, ive called my fellow techs, "hey have you seen this happen to this car."

          I do trust OE information, but they are human too so they are bound to screw up once in awhile, "revisions." Of course the dealer does not want to disclose important information and lose business to the indie / aftermarket world, but they are also human in the fact that they can get stumped, they don't have all the info on their "tech line", but at least they have the convenience to shot gun parts from nearby cars or the parts department.

          Regarding the power distribution board, how long will this fix last? My assumption is something is not sufficient enough to handle the amperage and causing the solder to burn up, but if you have tail light warranty it doesnt matter.

          Comment

          • Witsend
            Banned
            • Nov 2012
            • 2942

            #6
            No power locks or doors except LF on 2001 LeSabre

            Yesterday I pull codes U1161, U1162, and U1163 on a 2001 Lesabre from the Driver door module, check for TSBs for windows, locks, communication. I check wiring diagram and there is no purple wire for class2 communication between the other 3 door modules. Main power and ground ok to all door modules. I check the internet forum and find some mention of issue below driver seat, and some thing pretty good to go on a F'N Yahoo just answer questions and sure enough the answer is spot on. Why isn't there a TSB to check integrity of splice S302 tan/wht serial data wires below carpeting of LF seat?



            Seems GM wiring harness has an equivalent of a scotch lock connector taped over inside a harness under the seat that corrodes out in damp conditions. I knew as soon as I saw the tell tale green on the floor, there would be green death someplace. Got to wonder if the OE manufacturer fearing a massive recall pays off people not to make this information readily available before 10 years or more.
            Note Title above should read No power locks or windows except LF door on 2001 LeSabre
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Witsend; 11-08-2016, 12:14 PM.

            Comment

            • Crusty
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2007
              • 2450

              #7
              IF (and it's a big IF) the manufacturer provides a "description and principles of operation", it's well worth the read. Then an ACCURATE wiring schematic study.
              Fundamental, basic, LOGIC driven testing in a consistently logical pattern leads to the answers.....every time......
              That doesn't mean a "pattern failure" search isn't in order, but too many times people jump in halfway and end up chasing their tail back and forth and 'round about instead of thinking.
              Don't overlook those "pattern failures" on You-Tube and Identa-GUESS, just don't ***-U-ME that they ARE the answer. TEST for it. PROVE it out.
              There are no "magic bullets". Never have been.

              Comment

              • Witsend
                Banned
                • Nov 2012
                • 2942

                #8
                I agree with you, and following step #4 for diagnosis takes you right to checking the connection from splice S302 Tan/ wht wire. I just would have been a little more inclined to go through all the work of pulling up the seats, carpeting , and opening up a wiring loom in order to do a single pinpoint test if there was a TSB telling you there is a POS scotch lock connector wrapped with tape under damp carpeting that needs to be soldered and shrink tubed properly, LOL

                Comment

                • greasybob
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2008
                  • 1590

                  #9
                  We used to be able to add these kind of TIPs into SHOP KEY, right along side the OEM repair information or next to the wiring diagrams. And it was mostly greatly appreciated and well received by others in the repair community. But hey, what do we techs know anyways.

                  Comment

                  • Nick_Taylor
                    Administrator
                    • Jan 2014
                    • 381

                    #10
                    Originally posted by greasybob
                    We used to be able to add these kind of TIPs into SHOP KEY, right along side the OEM repair information or next to the wiring diagrams. And it was mostly greatly appreciated and well received by others in the repair community. But hey, what do we techs know anyways.
                    You can add tips through the SureTrack community. It doesn't go right with the repair data at this time though.
                    SureTrack Community Administrator, Diagnostics forum Administrator.

                    Comment

                    • greasybob
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2008
                      • 1590

                      #11
                      Maybe Shop Key or Sure Track could get a sophisticated search engine and all you would have to do is say "Alexa, find me all the Shop Key user TIPS on 2001 Buicks with communication codes"...... I love the future

                      Comment

                      • Witsend
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 2942

                        #12
                        Maybe Shop Key and Sure Track could start bookmarking a comprehensive library of relevant you tube links for certain subjects, and very complete detailed list of tools known to have been in the tool cart by the time the specific repair was completed.

                        Comment

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