Zeus plus...

[Tech_A]

I would agree there are plenty of opportunities to improve content to support vehicle diagnostics in Snap-on products.

MT2500 VCI's "real-world testing" does not even compare to most modern scan tools. I would assume that level of "expert" knowledge is very hard to come by now.

I feel what Snap-on exceeds at is providing content in a consolidated space that technicians of all levels can understand, but it does take a person with some critical thinking to utilize that information correctly.

[Steve6911]

Kahlil, I will have to agree 100% with the responses to your questions here. The "Intelligent Diagnostics" is lacking any real world testing. I cannot speak for the transmission side like Ben can But the engine side is as he states. Say I have a code for Oxygen sensor, Slow response, flagging certain data PIDS is nice, but if you don't know how the system works what does that sensor flag being red mean other then out of spec? So now the tech scrolls down to SureTrack, "most" of the time it will state the sensor acted "erratic". Exactly what does that mean? What does the PID look like when it is not erratic? If it was tested with a scope Good and Bad patterns would be nice. Even if it was tested with a Volt meter, what does erratic and good look like. Mostly the scanners show an Oxygen sensor code, its replace the oxygen sensor, Mass air flow sensor code, replace the mass air flow sensor. My first scanner was the OTC Monitor 2000, I really liked it in its time. My Boss came off the S.O. truck with the MT2500 one day. I had a Ford with an EVP sensor code. The OTC flow chart book had 3 columns of tests. I tried the TroubleShooter for the first time and in 5 minutes I had my answer. Many of the tests in there were like that, very well thought out and part replacement was not a pattern failure guess it gave accurate testing. I know vehicles have come a long way since then, MUCH more complex. However the Troubleshooter and the CTM are things that put Snap-on tools above the others and my thoughts are we need to get these back to where they belong to stay ahead.

[GypsyR]

As somewhat higher level diagnostic technicians, we are "detectives". We want as many clues as possible. Then we can make a call as to the repair path or what further diagnostic work may be needed to narrow down the problem. It's what we've been working for years to be able to do and what we get paid for. The junior and lower level folks just want a target for their parts cannons. The senior ones have seen enough problems caused by stuff that's never been in any shop manual or repair information that canned presumptive answers don't fly.

And I'm not kidding about the "replace transmission" thing. It's THE most common answer to any sort of transmission issue in the Intelligent Diagnostic list. It's kind of like how green mechanics and parts store people want to replace an oxygen sensor every time they see an 02 sensor code.

[Tech_A]

Over and over I see stuff in the "diagnostics" that says REPLACE TRANSMISSION due to whatever issue I am chasing. Also many of the listings of how other people have solved the issue will say the same thing.

Walk back a couple of years where we still have the "troubleshooting" button. A transmission code often as not will be explained and several potential causes of it listed. Bonus would sometimes be a call that I should focus on either electrical or mechanical causes for the code. Helpful, because many codes that indicate a speed sensor issue is actually where something mechanical has broken so the sensor works fine, there's just no motion for it to read. Often some hints on where to start looking and what to looks at. Sometimes even a lead to an actual test built into the scanner I can perform to help me prove out where the failure is. Thus I can determine if my example speed sensor code indicates a failed sensor, faulty wiring/communication, or an actual an internal and exponentially expensive failure. All of the have has happened. A lot.

All that great information versus the "Intelligent Diagnostics" telling us to "replace transmission". We basically ignore that ....ahem, stuff, and treasure the old troubleshooting info when its available as it can be pure gold on occasion.

The idiot shop across town "replaces transmissions". Then later sometimes the customer comes to us because it's still not repaired and it's evident even to him that the thousands of dollars he spent on a new transmission was a waste because that shop failed to diagnose the problem correctly. We do not want to be the idiot shop. Not a path we choose to follow.

So if I understand this correctly a more suitable experience would guide a technician down the path of a possible solution rather than the current intelligent diagnostics experience that shows the most likely solution(s) first and then information to verify that fault through TSB's, smart data, functional tests, guided component test, real fixes, troubleshooter and Repair Information

[GypsyR]

That's a good analogy. Sorry to hear that you are not getting the full benefits of intelligent diagnostics. What do you think would make it less absurd?

Over and over I see stuff in the "diagnostics" that says REPLACE TRANSMISSION due to whatever issue I am chasing. Also many of the listings of how other people have solved the issue will say the same thing.

Walk back a couple of years where we still have the "troubleshooting" button. A transmission code often as not will be explained and several potential causes of it listed. Bonus would sometimes be a call that I should focus on either electrical or mechanical causes for the code. Helpful, because many codes that indicate a speed sensor issue is actually where something mechanical has broken so the sensor works fine, there's just no motion for it to read. Often some hints on where to start looking and what to looks at. Sometimes even a lead to an actual test built into the scanner I can perform to help me prove out where the failure is. Thus I can determine if my example speed sensor code indicates a failed sensor, faulty wiring/communication, or an actual an internal and exponentially expensive failure. All of the have has happened. A lot.

All that great information versus the "Intelligent Diagnostics" telling us to "replace transmission". We basically ignore that ....ahem, stuff, and treasure the old troubleshooting info when its available as it can be pure gold on occasion.

The idiot shop across town "replaces transmissions". Then later sometimes the customer comes to us because it's still not repaired and it's evident even to him that the thousands of dollars he spent on a new transmission was a waste because that shop failed to diagnose the problem correctly. We do not want to be the idiot shop. Not a path we choose to follow.

[Wheel]

That's a good analogy. Sorry to hear that you are not getting the full benefits of intelligent diagnostics. What do you think would make it less absurd?

The kind of advice he described seems to push parts changing over diagnosis and repair. Often something far more simple and affordable turns out to be the problem.
We need to determine what is actually wrong with something, even if replacement is the best option. We are asking our customer to invest a lot of money . We owe him or her a thorough explanation WHY a repair is needed, just saying it is needed is not enough. If I am unable to explain to a customer why they need a repair - any repair - then that is a sure sign I did not do my homework, I may not know what I am doing, and that I absolutely do not deserve their business.

[Wheel]

I agree the features and data built into the tool are very nice

, especially 2012 and before for the troubleshooter. I only wish 2012 and on would download into the tool now and stay instead of being web based. Living in Alaska we don't have Wi-Fi every square inch of the state so its not as good of a feature for remote places.

Precisely. the "world wide web" isn't - contrary to popular opinion. There are areas you get neither internet nor cell phone coverage, more so than people think. The industry push to make diagnostic tools more internet dependent is foolish for just such reasons. One thing scan tool makers need to seriously consider if they are bound and determined to marry their tools to the internet is to add an option for a sim card so they may connect independently to the internet IN ADDITION TO not instead of the tool's built in wifi capabilities giving the mechanic some options.
With the built in troubleshooter Snap On had something really unique and special
making their tools actually worth some of that extra money they charge for them.
Intelligent diagnostics seems to take a more "hand you a fish" approach unlike the "teach you to fish" approach troubleshooter seemed to take.

[Tech_A]

Well aware. But to say they are different is like saying your Iphone is different from mine because you have Facetime or something on it and I don't. The added diagnostics is just an app extension.
As a transmission repair focused shop we have found our four years of the "Intelligent" Diagnostics subscription to so far be next to useless. No idea why the boss still pays for it. Any code you get like a shift solenoid or speed sensor it will basically say "replace transmission". I'm serious, it's absurd.

I don't care at all for the huge "soap on a rope" Edge dongle but it seems to me to be slightly more responsive than the nice and slim Zeus dongle. I don't use both scanners back to back often but it happens.

That's a good analogy. Sorry to hear that you are not getting the full benefits of intelligent diagnostics. What do you think would make it less absurd?

[GypsyR]

Verus Edge and Zeus may have had the same hardware but Verus Edge did not get Intelligent Diagnostics

Well aware. But to say they are different is like saying your Iphone is different from mine because you have Facetime or something on it and I don't. The added diagnostics is just an app extension.
As a transmission repair focused shop we have found our four years of the "Intelligent" Diagnostics subscription to so far be next to useless. No idea why the boss still pays for it. Any code you get like a shift solenoid or speed sensor it will basically say "replace transmission". I'm serious, it's absurd.

I don't care at all for the huge "soap on a rope" Edge dongle but it seems to me to be slightly more responsive than the nice and slim Zeus dongle. I don't use both scanners back to back often but it happens.

[ronald316@]

zeus +

i got mine on oct 31 way nicer then the zeus which i traded in

[DeslMec]

Hi guys, I am new to forum. I just bought the new Zeus plus, I haven't noticed any weird issues yet, so far I like it.

[greasybob]

My only gripe with the current Zeus is that establishing communication with the scan module is slow and glitchy. The blue tooth is slow to hook up and automatic vin recognition is slow and often misses by asking for vin digits when it has already displayed the vin. Hopefully the PLUS model has addressed these issues. I often have to unplug the scan module or reset diagnostic suite if the vehicle is shut off at the wrong time or switching between vehicles. I always try to find patterns for when the errors occur but it seems random. I know that Fords for sure have gotten much slower to auto ID. I would also say that the Zeus is more glitchier than me Verus Edge was.

[Corvette Rick]

I agree the features and data built into the tool are very nice, especially 2012 and before for the troubleshooter. I only wish 2012 and on would download into the tool now and stay instead of being web based. Living in Alaska we don't have Wi-Fi every square inch of the state so its not as good of a feature for remote places.

[greasybob]

It's good to see reviews and reports on the scanner I'll own as soon as I can get my hands on a used or repo unit. I gotta say though that I got a IM 508 autel as a back up and I'm impressed with the Immobilizer functions without any licensing, I've viewed their arguments that they only access the information and capabilities that are already in the vehicle. I would think that SnapOn could make some moves in this direction with out ruffling any feathers. Any ways the Autel is a terrible scanner with great functions and would never trade it for my Zeus.

[Tech_A]

Seems like a decent upgrade, not really up to modern computer standards if I'm being picky. For the price though i would think it would have a better camera then a 2016 cell phone. The Verus edge works just fine, the main gripe i have is snap on refuses to support it for a windows 10 upgrade they just call it a legacy product now. Ive seen others do the upgrade and ram and HD upgrades as well however if you run into a problem Snap On wont help you because at that point your basically modding it.

Definitely agree it is not up to "modern standards" but neither are computers on cars. You can ramp up the hardware as much as you want but if the car's communication line is slow then there is nothing really the scanner can do to speed that up.

I think the major benefit of this product is how much support you get from Snap-on, assurance that software has been tested, and new features included with each software subscription.