Zeus plus...

[GypsyR]

I like how we have to pay fees and jump through security hoops just to do a reasonable repair on a customer's vehicle when the thieves are still gone in 60 seconds with any of them like they had no security at all. (Cough, STELLANTIS)

[Tech_A]

IT's probably all a moot point. In a year or two we will all be using ChatGPT or some other chat bot AI system connected to our scanners to diagnose things. Heck if ChatGPT turns out to be as good as they say you can build your own scanner to your own specs. If the Mopar gateway thing takes hold you won't be able access the vehicle without an internet connection anyways.

I think AI will be good for redundant tasks like writing RO's, diagnosing P0100-P0300, and maybe some U code stuff. We will still need a human to intervene for more complex things like MPIs, rats chewing up wiring, DYI youtube experiments gone wrong, or EVAP monitors that will never run due to unique climate conditions.

We will definitely need an internet connection for "secure" diagnostics and reprogramming...even farm equipment will need the internet to reprogram or calibrate machines after repair.

[greasybob]

IT's probably all a moot point. In a year or two we will all be using ChatGPT or some other chat bot AI system connected to our scanners to diagnose things. Heck if ChatGPT turns out to be as good as they say you can build your own scanner to your own specs. If the Mopar gateway thing takes hold you won't be able access the vehicle without an internet connection anyways.

[SnapOnKid]

Yes, id also add most shops are also built like faraday cages, which makes even cell phone service difficult, and are located in areas where cable/fiber internet is not available yet. For those challenges there needs to be a way to access content directly on the tool but have a way to update it as content gets enhanced.

And this is why I posted about having to go to a website, Even if the tool has a direct link to access the info. Same thing if you required to maintain a subscription to access that portion of the info

A few of the shops I worked at had all the utilities under ground. Great!!! and I don't just mean the shop itself, were talking several blocks of the utilities buried under ground. But that was all done before Fiber was ever available...

The cable company tried to get us to upgrade but they wanted us to sign a contract and pay for a portion of the cost for them to bring it in. How ever they could not give us an exact cost... They also wanted to get everyone in the business center on board and some business just didn't need it at the time. and that was over 10 years ago...

This is why the old timers preach about functionality and the usefulness of that data being on the tool as well as being able to access it.

[Tech_A]

Yes, id also add most shops are also built like faraday cages, which makes even cell phone service difficult, and are located in areas where cable/fiber internet is not available yet. For those challenges there needs to be a way to access content directly on the tool but have a way to update it as content gets enhanced.

[SnapOnKid]

Service resets and relearns are component based functional tests and repair information so you don't have to leave your tool to access this info.

Same goes for tire wheel and maintenance these are catered to the selected vehicle so you don't have to dig through a service manual if a functional reset is available it will also be provided.


"Altus is just tracking what the tool is doing." this is an interesting thought. Altus started out as a way for the diagnostic thermal imager to share images and has grown to something similar to cloud storage. I would assume it would take a tremendous effort and resources to sort through that data to make anything useful of it. Sure you may get some trends from the automatic tagging but it's mostly noise without additional research or context. As with most data analysis garbage in, garbage out...

I feel once the internet gets more HP and shops can provide better WiFi inside of their faraday cages, there will probably be more usage of diagnostic tools that support remote access programming (RAP), but there will still be a need for an aftermarket tool when the technician can't figure how to navigate an OEM diagnostic system.

Unfortunately alot of shops don't or have not invested in Wifi Infrastructure within there shop unless the shop is newer or was recently purchased and updated.

A basic router, Usually from the ISP, and maybe a repeater if the shop is large enough is generally the norm. From what I have seen.

[Tech_A]

Well Tech_A,

Unfortunately Service Resets and Relearns that are not preformed Via a Specific scan tool function can generally be found on line. Same with Tire wheel and general maintenance....

Altus is just tracking what the tool is doing.
The tool already stores the information, can print it, and if you connect to the internet and log into a email you can send your own emails with the report and screen shots that are stored on the tool. It may provide some ease of use for a shop owner. But lets face it, on the other side of that coin, Snap On is just tracking what user's are doing and collecting that data to see market trends and common repair's. It helps forecast Specific needs and what to focus on. It's the same thing every Online company like Face Book, Google, Apple, and so on do.

Now the Guided components test Is a nice and useful Feature. There are a few users online that document this in there repair video's on You tube.

However, when I am pointed to go on line to a website to retrieve the information, It takes the functionality away from the tool.

IMO, When you remove that type of functionality from the tool you remove the Advantage of the added cost of the tool...

Service resets and relearns are component based functional tests and repair information so you don't have to leave your tool to access this info.

Same goes for tire wheel and maintenance these are catered to the selected vehicle so you don't have to dig through a service manual if a functional reset is available it will also be provided.


"Altus is just tracking what the tool is doing." this is an interesting thought. Altus started out as a way for the diagnostic thermal imager to share images and has grown to something similar to cloud storage. I would assume it would take a tremendous effort and resources to sort through that data to make anything useful of it. Sure you may get some trends from the automatic tagging but it's mostly noise without additional research or context. As with most data analysis garbage in, garbage out...

I feel once the internet gets more HP and shops can provide better WiFi inside of their faraday cages, there will probably be more usage of diagnostic tools that support remote access programming (RAP), but there will still be a need for an aftermarket tool when the technician can't figure how to navigate an OEM diagnostic system.

[SnapOnKid]

Snap-on products also provide guided component tests, service resets and relearns, tire wheel and maintenance, and Altus drive. How many smartphone or android tablet apps can do that?

Well Tech_A,

Unfortunately Service Resets and Relearns that are not preformed Via a Specific scan tool function can generally be found on line. Same with Tire wheel and general maintenance....

Altus is just tracking what the tool is doing.
The tool already stores the information, can print it, and if you connect to the internet and log into a email you can send your own emails with the report and screen shots that are stored on the tool. It may provide some ease of use for a shop owner. But lets face it, on the other side of that coin, Snap On is just tracking what user's are doing and collecting that data to see market trends and common repair's. It helps forecast Specific needs and what to focus on. It's the same thing every Online company like Face Book, Google, Apple, and so on do.

Now the Guided components test Is a nice and useful Feature. There are a few users online that document this in there repair video's on You tube.

However, when I am pointed to go on line to a website to retrieve the information, It takes the functionality away from the tool.

IMO, When you remove that type of functionality from the tool you remove the Advantage of the added cost of the tool...

[Tech_A]

GypsyR, Steve6911, And Wheel

Well said all 3 of you. It won't let me Quote all 3 of you with out erroring out.

Maybe the Meta Verse, Google, Or You tube can tell me how to fix the problem? Oh wait, That also requires an internet connection....

So If I am going to spend all my time on the net and the simple answer is to replace what ever part the code is attached too then why did we purchase these expensive "code readers"???

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to purchase a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and use a smart Phone App???

Every scan tool on the market has it's weak points. The trouble shooter used to be something that set the Snap On product apart.

Snap-on products also provide guided component tests, service resets and relearns, tire wheel and maintenance, and altus drive. How many smartphone or android tablet apps can do that?

[SnapOnKid]

GypsyR, Steve6911, And Wheel

Well said all 3 of you. It won't let me Quote all 3 of you with out erroring out.

Maybe the Meta Verse, Google, Or You tube can tell me how to fix the problem? Oh wait, That also requires an internet connection....

So If I am going to spend all my time on the net and the simple answer is to replace what ever part the code is attached too then why did we purchase these expensive "code readers"???

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to purchase a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and use a smart Phone App???

Every scan tool on the market has it's weak points. The trouble shooter used to be something that set the Snap On product apart.

[GypsyR]

Its time to ride the new Intelligent Diagnostics horse

Well, if it wasn't quite so lame....

(Sorry, absolutely could NOT resist.)

[Wheel]

Kahlil, I will have to agree 100% with the responses to your questions here. The "Intelligent Diagnostics" is lacking any real world testing. I cannot speak for the transmission side like Ben can But the engine side is as he states. Say I have a code for Oxygen sensor, Slow response, flagging certain data PIDS is nice, but if you don't know how the system works what does that sensor flag being red mean other then out of spec? So now the tech scrolls down to SureTrack, "most" of the time it will state the sensor acted "erratic". Exactly what does that mean? What does the PID look like when it is not erratic? If it was tested with a scope Good and Bad patterns would be nice. Even if it was tested with a Volt meter, what does erratic and good look like. Mostly the scanners show an Oxygen sensor code, its replace the oxygen sensor, Mass air flow sensor code, replace the mass air flow sensor. My first scanner was the OTC Monitor 2000, I really liked it in its time. My Boss came off the S.O. truck with the MT2500 one day. I had a Ford with an EVP sensor code. The OTC flow chart book had 3 columns of tests. I tried the TroubleShooter for the first time and in 5 minutes I had my answer. Many of the tests in there were like that, very well thought out and part replacement was not a pattern failure guess it gave accurate testing. I know vehicles have come a long way since then, MUCH more complex. However the Troubleshooter and the CTM are things that put Snap-on tools above the others and my thoughts are we need to get these back to where they belong to stay ahead.

There is absolutely no way I could have said it better.

[Wheel]

Its time to ride the new Intelligent Diagnostics horse

Actually, it may be time to bury that horse as well. For experienced techs, it really is a waste of time so they go elsewhere for information. For inexperienced techs, it has the potential to do more harm than good. It can get one into the parts changing habit rather than building the diagnostic skills that get to the root of the problem. As vehicles get more complex, the less likely it can be for two identical cars with identical symptoms to have an identical cause. Troubleshooter was like having a tutor helping you learn to figure things out. It didn't always have all the answers either, but it also taught you a mindset so you could better find those yourself. And it was always there when the internet wasn't or couldn't be.

[Tech_A]

I've been going with the assumption that when Snap On axed the written troubleshooting section they also axed or repositioned the person/people responsible for compiling and writing out all that wonderful information. Or perhaps they retired or left and Snap On couldn't replace them? I can certainly picture that. In any case I figure that horse is now long dead and buried, no sense to beat it.

Its time to ride the new Intelligent Diagnostics horse

[GypsyR]

I've been going with the assumption that when Snap On axed the written troubleshooting section they also axed or repositioned the person/people responsible for compiling and writing out all that wonderful information. Or perhaps they retired or left and Snap On couldn't replace them? I can certainly picture that. In any case I figure that horse is now long dead and buried, no sense to beat it.