Ecoboost has me scratching my head pretty hard!

[Estandfes0]

Having a fairly crazy issue with a 2011 F150 ecoboost (ecojunk) 100k miles.
It came in a few months ago for a p0305 cylinder 5 misfire. Customer declined tune up or coil replacement, insisted on cleaning throttle body. Against our advisement that it would not make a difference he chose to piss away money on that.

Few months later now (this week) he brought it in with a cylinder 1 misfire. I had marked coil #5 and moved it to cylinder #1. So seeing that, i chose to replace that coil, and some new plugs. After some time, customer approved the tune up to start.

After a test drive, p0301 moved to a p0305 (moved new coil back to its origional home cylinder 5). I had removed the new coil and replaced it with the old one, clearly that coil was not the issues. Test drive, p0306 came up.
Off the line, the truck has some good power, turbos spool up. Once the vehicle hits 2nd gear, about midway through the powerband. It totally falls on its face. Once getting it to cruising speed, it cruisies nicely, until you demand some torque, say going up a decent hill, misfires start, engine and whole truck shake and lose all power.

We have no codes. I'm thinking we have a turbo problem. Desired fuel pressure, and fuel rail pressures are very close together.
I know these direct injection engine are know for building up carbon on intake valves. Am i safe to run an intake valve cleaner through this engine even though i have the turbos to worry about damaging.

I'm sure i forgot some details. Its got my scratching my head on this mystery!

Maybe i oughta see if Ford has released a PCM reflash for this.... I would really like to NOT send this truck to the dealer, because he is a good customer of ours.

My gut feeling is one of the turbos is bad. Any help is appreicated guys! ✌️

[sbreland73]

There is a TSB to direct you toward replacing the Charge Air Cooler with an updated unit, symptoms occur after rain or high humidity (misfire)due to a leak. Moisture condensing inside the CAC gets ingested by cylinders hindering proper combustion. The TSB will help you identify if the CAC is updated or not. HTH

[greasybob]

Maybe this ?

[Estandfes0]

There is a TSB to direct you toward replacing the Charge Air Cooler with an updated unit, symptoms occur after rain or high humidity (misfire)due to a leak. Moisture condensing inside the CAC gets ingested by cylinders hindering proper combustion. The TSB will help you identify if the CAC is updated or not. HTH

Thank you, i will read into it! It looks like it does apply to me. I am going to remove that air defelctor and see if there is any sort of change in the way it runs.

[Estandfes0]

Thank you, i will read into it! It looks like it does apply to me. I am going to remove that air defelctor and see if there is any sort of change in the way it runs.

Looks like it does apply to me. I will follow the TSB and see where we end up!

Thanks guys... i will post my results shortly

[Witsend]

And why wouldn't the need for a revised air charge cooler make itself evident way before the vehicle has over 100K?

[sbreland73]

Maybe this ?

That's it.

[Witsend]

Isn't it kinda normal when moist air and PCV crankcase blow by is compressed, then is cooled , it condenses and would accumulate as a liquid and settle back at bottom of inter coolers. Seems like something like a tube with a drain cock installed at an accessible low spot might work if the thing isn't leaking boost pressure from a seam, and often as you drain your air compressor tank each morning you could drain both water and oil condensate out of bottom of inter cooler into a catch can so the backs of intake valves don't coke up as quickly? Looking at that Ford setup, maybe a drain and catch can, be required on both sides, Seems kind of like another ridiculous band aid, smokescreen TSB to me. Something akin to a silver lug nut recall with revised black colored ones for the early Expeditions that had spindly 12 mm studs instead of the bigger 14mm studs a little later models , but saved them changing out axles, hubs and wheels . LMAO. Think a couple electronic solenoid drains in the 2 lower corners of the tank that could open on driver command to purge the water and oil condensate out of the bottom sides of the inter cooler would make more sense to me.
Sooner or later might be an OE drain canister with a sensor that will let you know with a dash light that it needs to drained before the turbo boost will be allowed until reservoir is drained. there is already a aftermarket catch can for reroute crankcase vapors , but not sure about the water from humid air that condenses to water in the inter cooler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6h_FOzFMcs

[Glide]

And why wouldn't the need for a revised air charge cooler make itself evident way before the vehicle has over 100K?

Because higher mileage engines have more pcv gases and more condension gets into the charge cooler.Also the OP mentioned that there was a shield on the charge air cooler and the shield was fords first attempt at a fix so it has had this issue before.There was also a calibration update early on that didn't fix it either.

[Witsend]

Seems to me it be a good time to check compression , remove plugs , pull the intake and one cylinder at a time (with the intake valves seated) , have a Short Bus Dental Hygienist, or an Intake Valve Archaeologist go at the carbon at the back of all the intake valves with a sewer camera , set of dental picks, and compressed air , install new plugs, intake gaskets , injector seals , and and install a dual catch can set up.

[Estandfes0]

Seems to me it be a good time to check compression , remove plugs , pull the intake and one cylinder at a time (with the intake valves seated) , have a Short Bus Dental Hygienist, or an Intake Valve Archaeologist go at the carbon at the back of all the intake valves with a sewer camera , set of dental picks, and compressed air , install new plugs, intake gaskets , injector seals , and and install a dual catch can set up.

Where do i find one of these intake valve hygenists? Had a few i could use one for!

I am about to run a full compression test on it. I know these Direct Injection POS engines are known for carbon buildup on intake valves. as well as rings sticking. Perhaps we have stuck rings causing intermittent low compression jumping around between cylinders.

I do really wish Ford's misfire monitors, and live data ability was as good as some of the GM.. would save my self a whole lot of agony. Damn engineers

Also going to do a fuel composition test, from what i see, these things don't like any more than 20% ethanol. And god only knows what crummy gas this guy has been using here in Michigan.... probably the cheapest around. I already lectured him on the use on Top Tier fuels, blah blah blah.

I may even post a few screen shots of some data on here if that might help out a bit. Luckily the guy understands he has an oddball issue here, and is pretty understanding that i have to jump around between his and other vehicles here (since no one else at the shop here can diag stuff worth a damn)

Seems to me it be a good time to check compression , remove plugs , pull the intake and one cylinder at a time (with the intake valves seated) , have a Short Bus Dental Hygienist, or an Intake Valve Archaeologist go at the carbon at the back of all the intake valves with a sewer camera , set of dental picks, and compressed air , install new plugs, intake gaskets , injector seals , and and install a dual catch can set up.

I had done the plugs a few days ago, and they all looked like it has been running very rich for a while, and my scanner data shows that as well.

[Witsend]

Maybe a Android Endoscope sewer camera snaked through intake plenum could get some shots of the backs of the intake valves so you could send to your customer ?

[Glide]

Where do i find one of these intake valve hygenists? Had a few i could use one for!

I am about to run a full compression test on it. I know these Direct Injection POS engines are known for carbon buildup on intake valves. as well as rings sticking. Perhaps we have stuck rings causing intermittent low compression jumping around between cylinders.

I do really wish Ford's misfire monitors, and live data ability was as good as some of the GM.. would save my self a whole lot of agony. Damn engineers

Also going to do a fuel composition test, from what i see, these things don't like any more than 20% ethanol. And god only knows what crummy gas this guy has been using here in Michigan.... probably the cheapest around. I already lectured him on the use on Top Tier fuels, blah blah blah.

I may even post a few screen shots of some data on here if that might help out a bit. Luckily the guy understands he has an oddball issue here, and is pretty understanding that i have to jump around between his and other vehicles here (since no one else at the shop here can diag stuff worth a damn)



I had done the plugs a few days ago, and they all looked like it has been running very rich for a while, and my scanner data shows that as well.

If you just remove the charge air cooler and dump the milky water (pcv juice) out of it,then blow it out with air,you'll be good for a while.

[Estandfes0]

If you just remove the charge air cooler and dump the milky water (pcv juice) out of it,then blow it out with air,you'll be good for a while.

Here is what i have come up with, I pulled that intercooler off... not very much moisture, however, there is a good amount of oil.

I'm kind of on the edge of condeming the turbo on bank 2...
Air charge tube for bank 1 turbo is dry (very minimal oil coating as you would expect)

But the air charge hose for bank 2 has a good bit of oil! Probably where it is all coming from.

I am betting from how it feels driving (good under low boost situations, hesitates under higher boost) that we have a turbo failing. And definately the oil seals around the turbine bearing going bad.

Once again i know to expect some oil, thats just the nature of the turbo...
I would really rather not send this guy to the dealer, but i feel i may have to.



On another note, i did a ethanol content test... right around 10%. God knows where he gets his fuel, and i already gave him the Top Tier talk with the direct injection engines.


going slightly crazy here! luckily the customer is a cool dude and understanding about the situation!

[Witsend]

Top tier fuel requirement is utter BS as a requirement for direct injection, and mainly for engines that have conventional type of fuel injection that would benefit from the detergent additives cleaning the backs of the intake valves where the fuel spray sees the back of the valves.Just stick with Hi volume gas stations where the gas don't sit, absorbs moisture and becomes stale. I think Premium gas doesn't move very quick anymore and sits in underground tanks longer.