OTC Genisys EVO new for $1095 wouldyou buy it?

[Bob's Garage]

One of my local Franchise Parts suppliers is offering an OTC EVO FOR $1095. These are refurbished.

Part # OTC387OBD2R11 (Pep Boys)

It appears to be a kit. Includes Euro & Asian. Would you buy it as a Back-up or supplemental tool?

I am tempted, if for no other reason to bolster my Scan tool collection.

Also, it may help Snap-on to to say "I found these data PIDs on OTC, We need these on Snap-on" or "We need need these functional tests that SO does not offer".

I welcome any opinions.

Thanks, Bob

[Wheel]

One of my local Franchise Parts suppliers is offering an OTC EVO FOR $1095. These are refurbished.

Part # OTC387OBD2R11 (Pep Boys)

It appears to be a kit. Includes Euro & Asian. Would you buy it as a Back-up or supplemental tool?

I am tempted, if for no other reason to bolster my Scan tool collection.

Also, it may help Snap-on to to say" I found these data PIDs on OTC, We need these on Snap-on" or "We need need these functional testS that SO does not offer".

I welcome any opinions.

Thanks, Bob

Hi Bob.
Even though I own a Verus, I am glad I have a Genisys, or rather, a Mac Mentor. At least it is the "correct" color. It is a handy. easy to use scanner with an intuitive interface. Covers many holes in Snap On's coverage - but the reverse is also true. It has MANY really nice and I believe absolutely necessary features that I have been asking Snap On for for quite sometime now. For example - a keyless cable, ability to pull codes and some data from any module it can communicate with, does a second to none job of saving custom data lists that Snap On would do well to pay close attention to, has a DEDICATED button to push to record data, code trigger will trigger data saving on most cars. and there's probably a zillion things I am forgetting. To be fair, Genisys has its aggravations, too.

The Connectech program, OTC's version of Shopstream if you will, really makes you appreciate Shopstream, even at its worst. No comparison, but it beats nothing.

If you get one, the Evo version would be the one you want.

I have a mercenary motive for hoping you get one, because I know you will use it and will come to appreciate the features I discussed plus others, and bring them up to Snap On - maybe they will listen to you before they would listen to me.

[Steve6911]

Bob

Back in 2003 my boss deceided to "upgrade" from the MTG2500 that the shop had. He choose the Mac Mentor (mostly due to the price). At a Mac tool show in the area the district rep was a master at making this tool look like it could do everything. After 3 months of using this I purchased my Modis. Sometimes the Mentor could do things that my Modis couldn't, car lines that S.O. didn't support etc, but not too many. Yes they were the first between the two that had a Keyless cable, but it was badly flawed. 2001-2003 Toyota Camry's come to mind, hit read codes and it would clear them! Called their tech line and was told I was the only one to report this, a quick look on iAtn showed it had been a problem since the cable came out, it was reported by many and took YEARS to correct! SSC blows away OTC's software which they charged for, not sure if they still do. My boss purchased a second one (again due to price) it is faster but no better on coverage, I can't speak about the EVO as I have never used it. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I would save my money and put it toward purchasing a new Autel Maxipad when the one you currently have goes down.It has MUCH better coverage and bi-directional controls then the OTC, and in my opinion a better hole filler.

Steve

[eddiesverus]

Yes I would buy it, But I already own one, I have my Verus that I use at work, and My Mac Mentor Pro I use on the go. Many things I like about the Mac but also many things I like about the Verus. Having both will definitely fill up those gaps.

[Wheel]

Bob

Back in 2003 my boss deceided to "upgrade" from the MTG2500 that the shop had. He choose the Mac Mentor (mostly due to the price). At a Mac tool show in the area the district rep was a master at making this tool look like it could do everything. After 3 months of using this I purchased my Modis. Sometimes the Mentor could do things that my Modis couldn't, car lines that S.O. didn't support etc, but not too many. Yes they were the first between the two that had a Keyless cable, but it was badly flawed. 2001-2003 Toyota Camry's come to mind, hit read codes and it would clear them! Called their tech line and was told I was the only one to report this, a quick look on iAtn showed it had been a problem since the cable came out, it was reported by many and took YEARS to correct! SSC blows away OTC's software which they charged for, not sure if they still do. My boss purchased a second one (again due to price) it is faster but no better on coverage, I can't speak about the EVO as I have never used it. I could go on and on but I think you get my point. I would save my money and put it toward purchasing a new Autel Maxipad when the one you currently have goes down.It has MUCH better coverage and bi-directional controls then the OTC, and in my opinion a better hole filler.

Steve

I was told by an instructor that the key to using the keyless cable was IDing the car with it hooked up. Doing this, I never had any trouble but once - can't remember what I was scanning. I never tried it on the Toyotas you mentioned, though. I wouldn't go out of my way to get the euro coverage, but would take it in a good package deal. They seem to have pretty good Honda coverage.

As far as Connectech is concerned, you hit the nail on the head.
The superiority of Shopstream's ability to review data is one of my strongest motivations to try my Snap On scanner first if it will accomplish what I want.
One might think Connectech is okay - until they use Shopstream.
Anyone who has something bad to say about Shopstream - except for
the occasional bug, and the fact you can't annotate Verus scan files YET - needs to use Connectech for a while, and I think they will be quiet.
The part of Connectech you put on a computer was included on the update disk. The part that they charged for was what went on the Genisys. This you can get around by saving your scan captures to a 1gb or smaller usb stick & transferring them to a computer.

I would like to try the Autel you mentioned when funds allow.

[Bob's Garage]

Ok, so far I am hearing that the EVO would at least fill some holes. Where is it strong? Where is it weak?

Does it do some brands better than others?

How is the graphing? The display in general?

I would have bought it already except that I got a call back from the sales rep stating that $1095 was a scanner only. No cables, no accessories. Kind of like a replacement for those who have one already and need to update or replace a dead unit and already have the cables and adapters.

Sorry to say it would involve some other expenses. However, I did find that deal in an online warehouse a few bucks cheaper.

[Crusty]

As Wheel pointed out, if you transfer files to a usb-stick, the computer software will display your recordings. Any windows computer can display the screen shots (Jpegs of all things-!!!, NOT humungeous bitmaps) and almost any printer can then print the screen shots.

There are pros and cons to the OTC equipment. They're not drastically inferior to SO equipment. SO and SSC has much better graphing capability (when it works) (and the DECIMAL point issue has been IGNORED farr too long).

I'm sure there's a place for PC based scanners also, such as AE for one. Personally I find carrying a laptop computer to the car for a test drive more cumbersome than a hand held stand alone unit like the Solus-Solous-Pro and Solus-Ultra. The Genisys-EVO is a similar hand held tool. So is a Tech-II for that matter.

The price for a complete OTC unit up here has typically benn abou HALF what SO asks for their equipment (including all cables & AC-power supply, etc). Is the OTC stuff half as good-?? No, it's better than that but I think SO is ahead. The issues I've had with the OTC is the hardware reliability. Here's where you can pick your hardware and run AE. OTC software has holes, sure, but on things like no personality keys and all module scanning for codes, OTC was way ahead of SO.

The SO hand held units have been good as far as hardware goes, but in todays age, using slow main board CPU's, when a $400.00 laptop from Wally's-World has a faster CPU than a $10,000 SO unit seems as though the purchaser is getting short changed.

As for your original statement....

"Also, it may help Snap-on to to say" I found these data PIDs on OTC, We need these on Snap-on" or "We need need these functional testS that SO does not offer". "

I don't think it will do any good. They ignore facts and proofs that vehicles we service are getting older as a complete fleet.

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1987

And in order to do the job properly, they need to go back and fix the prior errors and omissions, rather than concentrating on developing another "NEW" piece of hardware. In the last 5 or 6 years, they've put out the
Solus-Pro
Verus
Verdict
Verus (2nd gen)
Solus-Ultra
Verus-Pro

A "NEW" tool every year, all the while, click-copy-paste....the same errors and omissions are repeatedly dumped into the new offering.

Is the OTC product worth investing in. Yes. So is AE, and others too.
It wouldn't be necessary if SO actually provided what they advertise and promote.
This pic is from Jun-2008.....the same blurb pops up here on this forum even today.........there's just one problem...........Ya can't do ANY of this if the pid isn't even in the scan tool in the first place........

[Bob's Garage]

OTC vs Snap-on?

Hi Crusty,

As Wheel pointed out, if you transfer files to a usb-stick, the computer software will display your recordings. Any windows computer can display the screen shots (Jpegs of all things-!!!, NOT humungeous bitmaps) and almost any printer can then print the screen shots.

OK, The whole giant Solus screenshot issue is a sore spot with you, I know. The reason they are bitmaps is because it is an SMX platform and they don't support jpeg. The size is the issue I think but mainly for uploads on a slower DSL system. To be honest. it does take longer to upload a 750KB file than a 75 kb screenshot (Verus), but not too long for me. There is a CR in for that, I just don't know if it will change soon. I'll keep pushing too on the size issue.

There are pros and cons to the OTC equipment. They're not drastically inferior to SO equipment. SO and SSC has much better graphing capability (when it works) (and the DECIMAL point issue has been IGNORED farr too long).

The OTC tool has to be better than it was. The ones I remember using were so slow that I thought they were broken. As far as SSC is concerned there have been some improvements "Edit List" and others, I have seen newer versions. The decimal thing is going to get fixed soon also.

I'm sure there's a place for PC based scanners also, such as AE for one. Personally I find carrying a laptop computer to the car for a test drive more cumbersome than a hand held stand alone unit like the Solus-Solous-Pro and Solus-Ultra. The Genisys-EVO is a similar hand held tool. So is a Tech-II for that matter.

I also prefer a handheld tool to a laptop. I also find laptops cumbersome. That is why I really haven't updated my AE in a long while.

The price for a complete OTC unit up here has typically benn abou HALF what SO asks for their equipment (including all cables & AC-power supply, etc). Is the OTC stuff half as good-?? No, it's better than that but I think SO is ahead. The issues I've had with the OTC is the hardware reliability. Here's where you can pick your hardware and run AE. OTC software has holes, sure, but on things like no personality keys and all module scanning for codes, OTC was way ahead of SO.

My recent research with OTC has been thrown off by the fact that there are different kits, huge difference between toll dealers etc.. From what I am seeing Compared to an Ultra the EVO is close in price. PC stuff has a bigger disparity between Verus and Pegisys

The SO hand held units have been good as far as hardware goes, but in todays age, using slow main board CPU's, when a $400.00 laptop from Wally's-World has a faster CPU than a $10,000 SO unit seems as though the purchaser is getting short changed.

As most fear, CPU speed, RAM etc don't really seem to matter much on Verus. I have a Verus Pro with 1.66 Ghz processor and 2 GB of RAM and it does not seem to be a whole lot faster than the Verus wireless. So, all of those that are comparing the Atom processor to a i5 are just blowing smoke for no reason. The processor speed is adequate for Verus and it runs cool enough to not need a fan or ventilation. That was the goal (one of them) keeping the board small was another.

Yes, a great laptop can be had for $400.00 no doubt. And it should be much faster. But these things are more for multitasking. At any rate, the Verus hardware is much more durable than any laptop other than a Toughbook (cumbersome). I have seen and "performed" drop tests. it has held up.

As for your original statement....

"Also, it may help Snap-on to to say:" "I found these data PIDs on OTC, We need these on Snap-on" or "We need need these functional testS that SO does not offer". "

I don't think it will do any good. They ignore facts and proofs that vehicles we service are getting older as a complete fleet.

It will do some good. It has done some good. I talked with some of the project managers and there are some good changes coming. BTW, didn't they fix the GM evap FTP PID to a choice of Inches of H2O or MM Hg ?

http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1987

And in order to do the job properly, they need to go back and fix the prior errors and omissions, rather than concentrating on developing another "NEW" piece of hardware. In the last 5 or 6 years, they've put out the
Solus-Pro
Verus
Verdict
Verus (2nd gen)
Solus-Ultra
Verus-Pro

Aren't you missing one?

A "NEW" tool every year, all the while, click-copy-paste....the same errors and omissions are repeatedly dumped into the new offering.

Is the OTC product worth investing in. Yes. So is AE, and others too.
It wouldn't be necessary if SO actually provided what they advertise and promote.
This pic is from Jun-2008.....the same blurb pops up here on this forum even today.........there's just one problem...........Ya can't do ANY of this if the pid isn't even in the scan tool in the first place.......

.

Points taken.

The truth is, To get an OTC EVO that has Euro and all the brand coverage of Snap-on it will cost a lot more than I was thinking:


http://www.tooltopia.com/otc-tools-3875tpr.aspx

http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/OTC-3874HD-p-224-Genisys06.html

http://www.mechanicstoolswarehouse.c...d-P186256.aspx

Thanks, Bob

[Crusty]

With more and more storage space becoming available, that does NOT mean it can be consumed frivolously just because there's lots there.
That again is a micro-junk philosophy (same as click-copy-paste)

Even when saving files from the Ultra vs from the Solus-Pro, there is a huge difference in the time waiting for the action to complete.

The biggest thing that pees me off is that pids are missing, they've been missing and SO doesn't think pids are important enough to FIX the holes, even though the age of the fleet we're servicing has aged to the point where the very vehicles we see are the vehicle that the SO tools have pids missing in.

It's already been illustrated to SO. Facts, and PROVEN WHY the missing pids are important.

My information gathering tool can't function properly because it can't gather the data because it's not there. Ya sure can't tell me that a custom data list would include the basic missing pids either-!! LOL VBG

I took a pic of the same "transfer, save, manage, review, annotate, e-mail and print files" Dec-07 this year........
Funny thing, the SO site here wouldn't allow the pic to upload because of a file size restriction and the pixel characteristics on my new camera were set too high....LOL.....their own site doesn't like file sizes that are too large....LOL.....but we're supposed to accept humungeous bitmaps 10 times the size of a Solus-PRO jpg screenshot.....
751kb for a screen shot vs less than 100kb from a S-Pro.....they want it both ways, when they can come up with some sort of reason, excuse or justification.

There is just NO justification for missing pids, of any kind, on any vehicle, in any system on that vehicle. If the pids are available at the ALDL then display them on our informayion gathering tool-!!

[Crusty]

As for them "fixing" the "Edit List" in SSC, it worked before and so them restoring what was previously functioning isn't a real fix....it's just correct an oopsey.

I'm sure glad they corrected the FTP to show inH2O, but that was only asking for the ability to do proper diagnostics as per the service manual without having to carry a calculator and a conversion chart along with the scan tool to the vehicle-!!

It only took a mere FIVE YEARS for one pid to change scale........that's right.....FIVE YEARS......

So they've made ONE fix........FIVE YEARS.......extrapolate the time it'll take to make the tool really as functional as was "advertised"........

Here's a pic from their own "Tool Talk" flyer in April of 2008.

[ephratah service center]

Ditto Crusty dont give use new things like touch screen and keyless cable until you fix missing pids and other issues that members have been complaining about. I had a mishap in the shop with my Ultra that is less than a year old and broke the touch screen (dropped it and hit on corner of lift). I was told by the rep it will be around a $1000.00 to replace the fancy new fangled touch screen. Thank goodness I kept my old antique trusty solus with the old fashioned keys.
It makes me wonder what the cost to replace the screen in the old solus would cost if I were to have a misshap with it? Im sure that fancy touch screen is a lot more $ that the solus that has just an old fashioned display.

[Bob's Garage]

Yes I would buy it, But I already own one, I have my Verus that I use at work, and My Mac Mentor Pro I use on the go. Many things I like about the Mac but also many things I like about the Verus. Having both will definitely fill up those gaps.

Hi Eddie,

It looks as if the $1095 deal was there for the taking but the rep told me to stay away from refurbs as he had issues with one of the one he sold.

It was also the most basic of all with OBD2 and domestic only I was told.

It would have a nice soft spot in my tool box next the MaxiDAS.

Thanks, and Merry Christmas,

Bob

[Bob's Garage]

Hi Bob.
Even though I own a Verus, I am glad I have a Genisys, or rather, a Mac Mentor. At least it is the "correct" color. It is a handy. easy to use scanner with an intuitive interface. Covers many holes in Snap On's coverage - but the reverse is also true. It has MANY really nice and I believe absolutely necessary features that I have been asking Snap On for for quite sometime now. For example - a keyless cable, ability to pull codes and some data from any module it can communicate with, does a second to none job of saving custom data lists that Snap On would do well to pay close attention to, has a DEDICATED button to push to record data, code trigger will trigger data saving on most cars. and there's probably a zillion things I am forgetting. To be fair, Genisys has its aggravations, too.

The Connectech program, OTC's version of Shopstream if you will, really makes you appreciate Shopstream, even at its worst. No comparison, but it beats nothing.

If you get one, the Evo version would be the one you want.

I have a mercenary motive for hoping you get one, because I know you will use it and will come to appreciate the features I discussed plus others, and bring them up to Snap On - maybe they will listen to you before they would listen to me.

Hi Tim,

I found a full version OTC EVO fairly up to date (2011 Asian and Dom) but only 2010 Euro. It can be had for $2195:

http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/p-18019-genisys-evo-usa-2011-kit-with-tire-pressure-reset-tool.aspx

They sent me an e-mail with 10% off coupon. That gets it under 2 grand. Come with a TPMS tool, which I could use. Not daily (we don't do tires) though.

Anyways, it said they were 'Out of stock'. that may mean that the 2013 edition is coming? In that case we'll see if it is better to wait, I sent them an e-mail to see what the future brings.

At any rate, I would use it for a while to see what the advantages are before I posted anything...

Merry Christmas!

Thanks, Bob

[Bob's Garage]

With more and more storage space becoming available, that does NOT mean it can be consumed frivolously just because there's lots there.
That again is a micro-junk philosophy (same as click-copy-paste)

Even when saving files from the Ultra vs from the Solus-Pro, there is a huge difference in the time waiting for the action to complete.

The biggest thing that pees me off is that pids are missing, they've been missing and SO doesn't think pids are important enough to FIX the holes, even though the age of the fleet we're servicing has aged to the point where the very vehicles we see are the vehicle that the SO tools have pids missing in.

It's already been illustrated to SO. Facts, and PROVEN WHY the missing pids are important.

My information gathering tool can't function properly because it can't gather the data because it's not there. Ya sure can't tell me that a custom data list would include the basic missing pids either-!! LOL VBG

I took a pic of the same "transfer, save, manage, review, annotate, e-mail and print files" Dec-07 this year........
Funny thing, the SO site here wouldn't allow the pic to upload because of a file size restriction and the pixel characteristics on my new camera were set too high....LOL.....their own site doesn't like file sizes that are too large....LOL.....but we're supposed to accept humungeous bitmaps 10 times the size of a Solus-PRO jpg screenshot.....
751kb for a screen shot vs less than 100kb from a S-Pro.....they want it both ways, when they can come up with some sort of reason, excuse or justification.

There is just NO justification for missing pids, of any kind, on any vehicle, in any system on that vehicle. If the pids are available at the ALDL then display them on our informayion gathering tool-!!

Hey Jay.

OK, Here we go again. Since we are cool, I won't make this sound like an arguement, just my "explanation"...

Your main focus appears to be GM evap and missing PIDs. I have seen some new GM data groups with a lot of new PIDS and truthfully, since most evap data is not dependent on speed there may be no need for a CDL, unless you are like me and eliminate all the PIDs you don't deem necessary. When I am focused on a small leak on GM Evap, I don't need fuel trim.

On the other hand, on other brands (I'm thinking Nissan for example), there has to be a road map as to what needs to be in the 2 seprated data groups on some models. And, then there are other models with 3 or even 4 data groups. I agree that a lot of work can be done on all brands in this area.

There is a strong arguement for allowing all the data in one mega group for the user to make his own. But, this presents a new problem. If the tool cannot "remember" that group it will be a hassle rebuilding that group each time you need it. To me, a well thought out data group is the best way to go.

Until the day that my CDL can be remebered permanently.

Luckily the Verus & Verdict scanner data groups have made progress in that area. I have seen data groups saved while I "dip out" and check codes or readiness. This is huge, saves time and may be the perfect way to do data in my mind.

As for the other platforms, I make a custom data list, I have to 'rebuild' it each time. That is time consuming.

As far as testing and feedback is concerned, you have been heard. You worked directly with one of the developers on GM evap and through that, the FTP PID now has inches of H2O. Of course, it appears that you aren't posting much on that anymore. The other changes are coming, be patient. I also worked on GM ESBT EONV with the same guy. Of course, "Evap season" is over....

The screenshot thing is a pain, but not a big deal for me. Even wirelessly it takes 10-15 seconds for me to upload 10 Ultra screenshots. We have broadband cable.

At any rate, Snap-on has progressed at a much more accelerated rate than any other company I have seen. The reason for all the new tools is that:

#1 People do want touchscreens
#2 People don't want keys
#3 People want faster processors
#4 People like having a PC as part of thier diagnostics
#5 Parts and pieces become obsolete.

I was recently told that they stopped making ETHOS boards. That was a 2007 intro.

5 years is a long time now for a board or display to be manufactured. So, rather than modify the obsolete tool with new hardware, they redesign the tool into a better tool. Ex: Solus>Solus Pro>Solus Ultra. PC scanners add to the total number of SO tools because people wanted them.

Gotta Run.

Merry Christmas to you and yours in the "Great White North"

Thanks, Bob

[Bob's Garage]

Solus Ultra Touchscreen Problematic for some ?

Ditto Crusty dont give use new things like touch screen and keyless cable until you fix missing pids and other issues that members have been complaining about. I had a mishap in the shop with my Ultra that is less than a year old and broke the touch screen (dropped it and hit on corner of lift). I was told by the rep it will be around a $1000.00 to replace the fancy new fangled touch screen. Thank goodness I kept my old antique trusty solus with the old fashioned keys.
It makes me wonder what the cost to replace the screen in the old solus would cost if I were to have a misshap with it? Im sure that fancy touch screen is a lot more $ that the solus that has just an old fashioned display.

This is the game we have chosen. Touch screens are here to stay. They are more expensive to repair, because of the nature of thier complexity. I am sorry that you damaged yours and have to pay the the price.

I get what you are saying though. What if Snap-on offered an Ultra or other tool without a touch screen?

The Solus would be hard to go back to, for me. As my eyes age, the smaller displays are not really an option until I get some form of bi-focals. Hell, I would like to see a Verus D-12. I have already made the suggestion...

As far as missing PIDs, what is your pet peeve? Any particular brands?

I know you want to say "all brands need all PIDS and all functional tests" but as you should know, no scanner company can duplicate the factory tools at least on all makes and all models. Of course, it would then be an extremely expensive tool. At this point, you are buying the factory tool for every brand you need it for.

I now own at least 10 factory tools in different forms on Tech2s & PCs etc... Funny thing, I rarely need them. Seriously.

Also, I hate laptops in cars. There has to be some sort of stabilizing system like a pass side seatbelt that doesn't block the key board and allows the right angle for you to see the screen. So, I put as much as possible on my Verus'.

After my dell slid off the seat a few times, I decided to just keep it in reserve and use it for reprogramming etc.. I still use it for factory level scanning if (not very often) Snap-on or MaxiDas can't handle the job.

So to get back to your orignal post.

No one scanner is perfect and even factory tools have flaws. There are guys on iATN that recommend and only use factory tools and limit thier clientel to a few manufacturers. If you want to service all makes and models you are stuck in this same boat. Aftermarkets scanners. You will need more than one to survive. Being a one man operation like yourself, the income hardly supports the budget to experiment. I am sure you chose Snap-on because of the support and it's capabilities. MaxiDAS would be my second brand scanner.

Since MaxiDAS graphing is so pitiful, I almost never use mine.

I am surprised they haven't figured that out yet. Thier game is coverage though. Which makes it a good complimentary tool.

Sorry, I digressed, I had too much time this morning !!

Bob