The Great Anti-Seize Debate
Some times you're damned if you do , and you're damned if you don't put some anti seize on spark plug threads. I always to use the stuff ever so sparingly, no matter if it says to or not, but I seemed to recall that Volvo doesn't want it used on the sparkplugs because it can cause iover tightening of the plug before the torque wrench ever acheives the resistance needed to click at. I could imagine if you Slather the stuff on more than a couple threads and ends up where the plug seats on , but I'm thinking that no mattter what precautions you take, some of those heads were probably cast out of aluminum from recycled Heinekin Cans and will have issues regardless.
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If a specification states xx.xx torque dry, then if it is lubricated the torque should be lowered by 10 percent to not over torque. The torqueing process is relying on friction and resistance to the turning.
Engineers will use washers under the head of bolts, (yes we're talking spark plugs....more later) not only to spread vertical loads, but also to facilitate the rotation when torqueing.
Antiseize (which comes in various forms) is a lubricant and should be used judiciously in strategic areas. Slathering it on isn't a good idea and if a little is a good idea, more isn't necessarily better.
When it comes to spark plugs, no matter what the "coating" they may have, I use a very small thin amount to ensure there isn't a galvanic reaction between the dis-similar metals of the spark plug and the cylinder head, regardless if it is an aluminium head or a cast iron head. Here again, too much can inhibit the ground path for any spark plug regardless if it is in a waste spark system or a single conventional polarity voltage firing.
Everyone always pulls the plugs at the correct time and mileage.....NOT-!!!
A trimmed acid brush allows for a very thin controlled light coating on the threads only.
Too many people put too much on and for a number of reasons manufacturers state not to use it but the engineers don't always allow for the vagaries of environment, nor do they allow for the abuse of leaving plugs in the hole way past their "best before" date...LOL
Cautious use of the stuff is a good idea, especially up here in the "rust belt" where temperatures and moisture, along with the salt, encourage oxidation of all kinds of metals. Add galvanic reaction and I dare you to leave a plug in the hole for 160,000-kilometres or EIGHT YEARS-!!!
You'll be pulling the heads and sending them out to have the plug DRILLED out at a machine shop. -
If it came out of my bay, every spark plug ever has had anti-seize applied to it.
I have never had a comeback related to it, I have never pulled threads from a head due to it, never had had any ill effects noted due to it.
Theres two things I ALWAYS do regardless of what the service information states....
Anti-seize on spark plugs
Red loctite on dry brake fasteners.
I have never experienced or even heard of a failure due to either of these practices done properly, I have however seen, heard and experienced them when these arent done.Comment
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Used properly, not a problem, and the urban legends of what all it damages, I have seen. I do not use it all the time and the first thing I do when I am training a new tech is to make sure they don't overdue it. We pride ourselves in a few things here after 40 years... never has a wheel fell off after it left my shop, and never a complaint that someone could not get one off behind us. Never had a dry start up after an oil change, never 4 quarts of oil in the floor because a tech left an oil plug out (policy: they hold the drain plug in their hand until oil is drained and it is re-installed and tightened).Comment
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all the time
From what i have researched and read and everything else, i still use anti seize on spark plugs, too dam many times have i done tune-ups where the spark plugs have never been changed or over tightened or for whatever other reason they wont come out. Now from what i learned is that electralosis is a big part of that **** aswell., any time a ground wire of any kind that goes to the head should be taken into consideration along with the difference in metals, <alum./steel>. Anti seize does not block conductivity as far as blocking a good ground for the spark plug... Sure you can always let the engine warm up first and then burn the **** out of your hands, i think we have all been there. From what i learned in the automotive industry almost anytime 2 different metals come together or any ground wires that go to the head, anti seize should be used on spark plug threads. Ground wires that go to an aluminum head can cause electralosis and make spark plug threads nasty. I have never had any problems with a spark plug not grounding.Comment
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Buffalo Boy
I may live in Sunny South East Florida now, but I come from the rust belt. I've been using Anti Seize for over 35 years. Never regretted using it. Even here in Florida, if the customer lives near the ocean, they might as well live in Buffalo or Cleveland!
If it goes into aluminum, I coat it with Anti Seize. Every customer's car gets it coated on the studs for the lug nuts. I also like to coat the contact area between the wheel hubs and brake rotors. Always coat the contact area between the brake rotors/drums and alloy wheels. If you don't around here or in the rust belt, your customer will NOT be able to remove the wheels when he/she gets a flat tire. I've removed many wheels on first time customer's cars with a sledge hammer, due to severe corrosion. Any time you have two dissimilar metals in contact, you have created a battery. It's called galvanic corrosion.
I am not superstitious by nature. That said, my ONE superstition is that if I DON'T apply the anti-seize, the darn thing will come back and of course, the bolts WILL break when I try to remove them. Apply the anti-seize and I never have a problem. My customers are loyal. I know that I will be the one to take it apart next time. Why not make life easier on myself? It's been working for me, for over 30 years! :-)Comment
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Im with you except for the wheel studs and rotor/drum/hub interface. I always lubricate (with grease as antiseize dries/firms up)the wheel hub bore and/or the hub pilot section, but NEVER that face of the hub or the studs.
I live in southern NJ, barrier islands with salt water all the way around and salted winter roads, but still dont feel the need to lube threads of wheels or faces of hubs. Corrosion from face to face contact isnt what keeps the wheels or brake parts together, its the edges. Also never had an undamaged lug nut that wasnt overtorqued refuse to come off so no lube there.
Not too mention I dont know of a single OEM that advocates lubricating wheel studs/bolts or face to face contact areas. I know for a fact that some of them actually require cleaning theses areas with brake cleaner or denatured alcohol to be sure there is no contaminants or lube present.Comment
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After PB blasting and a plastic dead blow mallet dont work, then I have to put 50 psi of air in the tires and have Batting practice on the inner side of tires on alloy rimmed vehicles with a nice 30 pound Ford Expedition torsion bar that usually does the trick .I Chisel the hard white deposits off the hubs then I prefer to use Dielectric Tune up grease and only use the antiseize sparingly on the leading threads of the studs to prevent futher galling of threads on lug nut installs on cars where they seemed to resist spinning off easily.Comment
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Maven, believe me, the rotor/drum/hub interface is a CRITICAL area to antiseize-!!
GM even brought out the hub cleaning tool to reach down over the studs to clean the surface before mounting another rotor. That tool does get around the studs nicely but it doesn't deal with the rest of that mating surface.
A coating of anti-seize when the vehicle is new and no more pounding on a rusty rotor to get the old one off. They WILL rust and it's not IF a rotor has to come off, it's WHEN.
ALL of that FORCE is being transmitted directly into the hub/bearing assembly.
Unless some conscientious individual coats that, the vehicle can go 3 years and 60-K, and when the brakes are done, the dealerships sell them brakes. Fine, it needs brakes, BUT within 6-months after the rotors being pounded off, that poor vehicle owner will need front wheel bearings. Seen it too many times to count.
There are a dozen contact points on each wheel that need cleaning & lubrication, synthetic especially on the pins where there is a rubber or boot. The rotor/hub flange surface does quite well with either the grey or the copper anti-seize.
I would disagree with ChasKuss about the wheel studs though. But only to a point. GM states clean & dry for wheel nut torque. Chrysler states LIGHTLY lubricated. (just two quick examples, YES I have looked it up on virtually every vehicle my customers have)
I agree with all you guys about the LIGHT COATING, just on the threads of the spark plug though, (AND di-electric grease on the plug boots). STEEL spark plug shells, of various compositions of steel, in contact with cast iron heads or aluminium heads is a combination for galvanic reaction. The LIGHT COATING ensures they don't weld themselves into the heads, regardless of where on the continent we may be.
The average vehicle still goes 12,000-MILES, 20,000-KM per year. With the plugs sometimes lasting as long as 100,000-MILES (160,000-KM), that means EIGHT YEARS that the plugs could be in the hole.
Go ahead, leave 'em in there that long. Hope the heads don't have to come off to be sent out to the machine shop to have the plugs DRILLED out-!! (Yes, sometimes we can put inserts in place but not always)
What anyone using a lubricant/anti-seize where the torque specification is specified as clean & dry needs to remember is to REDUCE the torque applied so as not to stretch the bolts and threads and actually OVER-torque the fastener.
Anti-Seize-?? YES-!!
Willy-nilly-slathering of the stuff-?? Nope.
USE IT- just use it judiciously.Comment
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Maven, you live in New Jersey, were the only time there is a salt environment, it's probably under 40 degrees. All chemical reactions LOVE heat. Along the coast down here, the salt air operates in 50 [dead of winter] to 90 [6 months out of the year] degree temperatures. I've had customers who's wheel hub flanges were totally eaten away with rust, when I went to do a brake job. Machined surface? We don't need no stinkin' machined surface! [Apologies to Mel Brooks] A thin coating of Anti-seize between the hub and the rotor, or the rotor and the alloy wheels, puts a complete stop to that problem. I've been doing it for 20 years now, with zero problems.
Regarding using it on the lug studs, I suspect that you guys have smarter morons working at the discount tire places, compared to down here! Forget proficiency in technical English! We're lucky if they even speak ANY English. I reduce the torque 10% to allow for using anti-seize on the lugs. Haven't warped any rotors yet.
South Florida rule of thumb. Never let anyone who's command of the English language is worse than yours [you being the car owner] work on your car.
We all do what works for us. We also operate in different climates. I can say that I sure don't miss changing steel and rubber brake lines up north! I still have nightmares about that!
I also don't miss having the icebergs that build up behind the wheel wells dripping or falling down the back of your neck in the winter. 
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Chaskuss; That is the KEY to using any lubricant, and it's military good quality training......reduce the torque by 10%.......
As for the icebergs that fall down the back of your shirt....LMAO.....THAT ain't the problem-!!!!
It's when it gets down to the elastic in your boxers-!!!! Now THAT's a problem-!! LOL
Fuballo ain't that far from where we are here and they don't use half the nasty stuff Ontario uses.... LOL
(JK)Comment
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LOL....or you could just GRIN and enjoy the sensation-!!! LOLComment
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No, as I stated, barrier island, surrounded by salt water on all side 365 days , and with salt on the roads for many weeks throughout the winter additionally. One of the worst combinations around.
While all chemical reactions do require and accelerate with heat rust is actually a bit of an exception to some extent. Rust requires iron, oxygen and water. When air is heated it becomes less oxygen dense and soluble. When the air is more oxygen rich and more soluble the iron is colder and less reactive. They tend to counteract each other at typical atmospheric temperatures. Now when there are broad enough changes in temperature that the metal crosses the dew point above freezing and causes condensation this is when you'll get accelerated rust. Blah blah blah...anyway......
I know Ford recommends lubing the hub face and I'll follow the OEMs recommendations obviously, but I really don't like the idea of lube between the hub/rotor/wheel. Would never do it on a racecar, GM doesn't do it, BMW doesn't do it...I don't think its necessary.Comment
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A LIGHT coating on the surface that the rim/wheel contacts, particularly the centre hole, is another area that gets lubed up here. I have a 2-1/2 foot long piece of 2" diameter steel re-bar to smack the tough ones off. A hammer doesn't have enough mass to pop em off and they can get really tough to get off within one or two years.
Cracking the nuts loose then rolling the vehicle and hitting the brakes to snap them loose is really tough on wheel studs.Comment
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