SureTrack Users General Discussion

[Witsend]

Consider being a Contributing member of IATN ?

This isnt quite true, while it may not seem easy to find the subscription information if you dont know where to look, its pretty much all out there. Even Ferrari offers their parts, recall, TSB and service information for purchase to Indy shops. The only popular name that is virtually impossible to get info for is TESLA but thats because they arent structured or sold like other cars, and are exempt from the right-to-repair laws in most states.

Motor magazine prints an annual Source Guide that chock full of almost everything you could need to find, and typically just googling "CarBrandX service information" will get you the results you need on the first page of results

I google forums, and You tube often, and if I get a real Big Turd I can't figure out how to move it, I might upgrade my free IATN membership to a paying membership to be able to access their data base on vehicle fixes ,rather then have to wait and sift through a bunch of Cookie Cutter Generic replies to a Tech Help Request if I ever decide to post one. With a free membership you cannot view other help suggestions without contributing a help suggestion to it's resolution, so some replies seem bogus, like they were posted so just to be able to see what others with legit advice are suggesting. As a free membership you can view the final fix to the ones you offered help with as well as other recently closed help requests with in the last 30 days.

[greasybob]

So what happens when we hit the Feedback tab in Pro Demand and leave a message ? It seems to me that the Feedback tab is intended more for software problems than it is for content problems, errors or omissions ?

[greasybob]

In the PDF below there is no indication that it is actually fuse 35 that supplies power to the interior and cargo lamps through the instrument cluster. Just one example of the type of user added information that Pro Demand is now missing out of. Not much of a TIP but a time saver for someone trying to run down an open circuit.

[Nick_Taylor]

So what happens when we hit the Feedback tab in Pro Demand and leave a message ? It seems to me that the Feedback tab is intended more for software problems than it is for content problems, errors or omissions ?

GB, the feedback button goes to a team of people who review it and assign it to the various groups that need to deal with it. It's not intended for immediate support and I've been trying to get them to update the form to give more information on the right places to go for that.

When you submit it, it includes information about the vehicle that was selected and where you were at. I go through the list myself to handle items where users are asking for help fixing a vehicle so I can direct them to SureTrack.

[Scott 79]

I have not posted much on this G.D. forum like I used to on O.D.5. Part of the reason why, is because I try to keep my cool.
I am now starting to loose it.
I am just down the hill, PLEASE SEND SOMEONE DOWN HERE SO I CAN SHOW THEM HOW SCREWED UP PRO IS!!
I can still find more useful info on an old computer that had the discs saved onto the hard drive in 2008. I can not find the same info on PRO. I don't care if you search it, Vehicle reference it, etc. The data is not there.
Now let me vent on Sure Track.
WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!!!!
I tried to help some people when I first tried it, but got tired of the same people posting the same GENERIC RESPONSES.

Ok, to address the generic responses. I am probably guilty of these generic responses but that is in most part due to the fact that I do not know the qualifications of the guy on the other end of the question. Walk in 80% of the shops operating today and they have no clue as to what a running compression test is. I have found countless valve spring issues using this test so I pass it along. Now I know Eric, MasterTech, Maven and a few others on there and would not post this as a go to for them (not that they ask anything anyways) but I have the understanding that "Joe Blow" can pay to post a question on Sure Track. This guy probably don't even know what a damn compression gauge is so I find myself replying in the most basic form possible.

Every now and then I see an issue that I have seen personally and it tried to kick my a$$.. I only hope that they follow the years of experience I have, for example on an 08 Crown Vic brake light issue... found the "moon roof" fuse is the power point for the 3rd brake light.

Once again, the generic answers are given simply because we don't know that this genius asking a question is trying to stop a misfire with 13 year old, 165K plug wires and plugs.. We have a whole lot of knew things coming out every day in this field but basically, if you have fuel, fire and compression, that gal ought to run. The biggest problems I have on any vehicle is after somebody else replaces an engine and misrouted the haress etc..

I ask quite a few questions on Sure track of which most of them are for a second opinion, hell I shot by the hip for 35 of the 38 years I have in this field and I am happy to have people like Eric, Master, Maven, JBsprint and others at my disposal. I also realize they are also out here working and not sitting at their laptop waiting on me ask something.

Bottom line, I know that I have helped others and others have helped me on Sure Track and I am grateful for it. Sorry for the long post

[greasybob]

Let me see if I can do this.
It's an 05 F150 5.4 with codes P0171 and P0174. Open the hood and there it is, the cold air intake. Is there any benefit to this if you move the MAF to a location where it wasn't calibrated for and now the PCM dumps fuel because of the errant measurement of air flow. The first scanner shot is with the cold air. The second is with a stock air filter and housing, same MAF sensor, did not clean it. The baro still not right but I haven't driven it yet. Notice long term fuel trim.

[Crossland Auto]

As always, great job Greasy. I wish I were like you.

This Lexus compressor came in self grenading. When I deal with a unit like this, all non flushable components are replaced, the rest are flushed. Total oil capacity is critical. I am sure you all understand that, especially if the labor times are huge for removing front and rear evaps to replace expansion valves, etc.

On a side note: I may have figured out the V.W. Turns out, I may be the first to see this issue, (due to the previous work involved that I can not really prove). Now I feel comfortable putting the 10 new valves in, and throwing it together again. I will follow up on this after it has been gone for a couple months.
I just wish I would have taken pictures of the last 3 days.

X

[Tech_A]

Let me see if I can do this.
It's an 05 F150 5.4 with codes P0171 and P0174. Open the hood and there it is, the cold air intake. Is there any benefit to this if you move the MAF to a location where it wasn't calibrated for and now the PCM dumps fuel because of the errant measurement of air flow. The first scanner shot is with the cold air. The second is with a stock air filter and housing, same MAF sensor, did not clean it. The baro still not right but I haven't driven it yet. Notice long term fuel trim.

Doesn't more fuel make you go "more faster"? Theoretically, I would think the re-allocation would not affect the sensor's ability to measure the air flow because the air flow should be consistent throughout the piping.

Out of curiosity, did you clear the MIL and or adaptives after installing the OEM intake piping and air filter? I would assume you did since the LTFT dropped so low, hopefully when you do drive it the LTFT doesn't climb back up.

[liljoe]

Theoretically, I would think the re-allocation would not affect the sensor's ability to measure the air flow because the air flow should be consistent throughout the piping. .

I have seen many fuel trim issues resolved by removing the "cold air" intakes, that btw, when you look closely at them, lots of time they are pulling hotter air then the factory air box. You have to remember that the MAF only samples a small portion of the total intake air flow, not all of it. That is why location makes a big difference in the functioning of said MAF sensor I have seen a ranger with the wrong factory air box ( a 4.0 on a 3.0 truck) and it would not run properly or keep decent fuel trim numbers. Sensor placement is a VERY important part of they equation.

I would say with out doubt that yes he reset fuel trims, but the fact that he ran it long enough for the long term to decide where it wants to be that it is now accurate and that the baro reading will come into spec after driving due to it not being a measured but inferred value...

[Tech_A]

That is why location makes a big difference in the functioning of said MAF sensor I have seen a ranger with the wrong factory air box ( a 4.0 on a 3.0 truck) and it would not run properly or keep decent fuel trim numbers. Sensor placement is a VERY important part of they equation.
.

The difference here is that the vehicle had an intake piping designed for a 4.0L, which would pull approximately 4.0 gm/s. The flow of air was restricted on the 3.0L.

If you noticed in greasy bob's PID values the aftermarket intake is only pulling 4.4 gm/s at idle, when it should be approximately 5.4 gm/s, which leads me to believe the filter on the aftermarket intake is a POS.

Placement is crucial when it comes to heat, additional heat can skew a MAF reading; when the data was captured with the aftermarket intake, the EOT and CHT was lower (if applicable, since you may get a whole lot of PIDSs that may not apply).

[maven]

The difference here is that the vehicle had an intake piping designed for a 4.0L, which would pull approximately 4.0 gm/s. The flow of air was restricted on the 3.0L.

If you noticed in greasy bob's PID values the aftermarket intake is only pulling 4.4 gm/s at idle, when it should be approximately 5.4 gm/s, which leads me to believe the filter on the aftermarket intake is a POS.

Placement is crucial when it comes to heat, additional heat can skew a MAF reading.

The MAF is also after a bend in the tubing which slows the air velocity.

[Crusty]

Hot air in July verses cold air in January. .... isn't that what the IAT sensor tells the ECM-?

Hey, I'm no fan of aftermarket hot rod add ons.... they MIGHT improve one area of performance but they usually sacrifice five or six other things.

A lot of MAF sensors have a type of screen on the inlet that redirects the airflow through the body of the sensor.

I would be most suspicious of the oiled air cleaner element being overly oiled and/or oil contamination of the sensor.

There is more to it than simply heat or bends in the piping.

You couldn't GIVE me one of those setups though.

[maven]

Hot air in July verses cold air in January. .... isn't that what the IAT sensor tells the ECM-?

Hey, I'm no fan of aftermarket hot rod add ons.... they MIGHT improve one area of performance but they usually sacrifice five or six other things.

A lot of MAF sensors have a type of screen on the inlet that redirects the airflow through the body of the sensor.

I would be most suspicious of the oiled air cleaner element being overly oiled and/or oil contamination of the sensor.

There is more to it than simply heat or bends in the piping.

You couldn't GIVE me one of those setups though.

Theresa definitely a lot to it, has everything to do with fluid flow through the intake tube though. Hell a big bug or leaf stuck in the air filter housing blowing around creates enough turbulence that the ECM doent understand to cause drivability issues on the newest vehicle

[Tech_A]

Hot air in July verses cold air in January. .... isn't that what the IAT sensor tells the ECM-?

Yes, also in combination with ambient temperature if equipped. The IAT is a thermistor, exposure to uncalculated heat may skew the IAT reading also, but now that I think of it the temperature of the environment around the MAF/IAT should be relatively the same in an enclosed engine compartment. If the MAF/IAT was placed lower e.g. the lower front wheel well, the MAF/IAT would be in a cooler place and read slightly different. Yet you risk more chance of failure due exposure to water.

A lot of MAF sensors have a type of screen on the inlet that redirects the airflow through the body of the sensor.

Yes, I've seen some of the FOMOCO, Denso, Bosch MAF/IAT's designed this way or with a channel that redirects the air up to the heated element; they tend to be more susceptible to debris getting trapped inside the air passage.

[Crusty]

Tech A;
I'm just pointing out that HEAT or hot air isn't enough to skew the MAF sensor.
Warmer air has less density, less mass, therefore less oxygen molecules along with the 79 or 80 percent nitrogen.
As for the screens, one example that comes to mind is the grid in the front of a GM MAF sensor on a 3.8 that they used for about 10 years.

Maven;
Heck I've seen pieces of pollen dust from poplar trees that got by a poor fitting air cleaner element. Those little round fluff balls about half the size of a golf ball. Two or three of 'em was all it took-!! LOL
You're correct about us thinking of the air as a really thin liquid.....that's why variable cam timing is so effective at increasing the volumetric efficiency of the cylinders at higher engine RPM's. Same goes for variable tuned intake manifold runners. That same principle was used back in the 1980 with GM's "Tuned Port" 5.0 and 5.7 in the F-bodies and the 'Vettes.
Heck it even goes all the way back to high rise intake manifolds too.

The more things change, the more they stay the same-!! LOL