SureTrack Users General Discussion

[Thomas Greene]

Thanks Witsend.. I mic'd cam reluctors and all shows Identical. Looked everything over and decided to install engine. Hope I don't find out crank reluctor is different! (be just my luck) lol

[Crusty]

I would trust what a Hollander interchange book says will work before I would trust a GM Johnnie at parts counter telling you 2010 shows an Apple Charlie, and 2011 shows an Apple David at the end.
Going off on another tangent, I Never could figure out why it took so long for many manufacturers of 4 cylinder Front wheel drive cars to finally orient the head to have the intake manifold side facing forward and the exhaust manifold and cat side toward the back.

You gotta be kidding-!! Hollander-??? I've had more swapped engines brought in to fix after Hollander said they were interchangeable. Some were simply nightmares-!!
I would take what a GOOD partsman says over Hollander ANY DAY-!!
AFAIC a good partsman is worth his weight in gold-!!

Hollander crossover starts with an "H"
So does Haynes manuals (complete junk-!!)

[Skip]

I was told it had to do with having the exhaust manifold in front for crash protection. Especially with carbureted cars.

[Witsend]

You gotta be kidding-!! Hollander-??? I've had more swapped engines brought in to fix after Hollander said they were interchangeable. Some were simply nightmares-!!
I would take what a GOOD partsman says over Hollander ANY DAY-!!
AFAIC a good partsman is worth his weight in gold-!!

Hollander crossover starts with an "H"
So does Haynes manuals (complete junk-!!)
Reply With Quote

I would have to agree with you about a good partsman that could tell you why the parts #s are different . A good parts guy might say "The later engine is improved because the chain guides and oil pump are more robust and it uses the bigger oil filter. I'm not supposed to tell folk why the running changes were made, but we got 3 down in the shop now , and they're on a national back order. LMFAO

[maven]

Wondering if anyone could share some knowledge on a 2010 Equinox 2.4 ltr. ecotec. Chain tensioner exploded, and bent valves. Customer wants boneyard engine installed instead of head job. (Boneyard has a 2011 with 22k on the clock) Salesman claims engines will interchange, cam reluctors seem to be identical. but G.M. tales me that they are different part #'s. Just wondering if anyone could shed a little light on the subject, before I install this thing and find out I just waisted my time?
Thanks!

The engines do interchange as units. But they are slightly different internally and any future service will need to be performed using the service information for the model year of the "new" engine, and parts will need to be ordered for the model year of the "new" engine.

[Crusty]

The engines do interchange as units. But they are slightly different internally and any future service will need to be performed using the service information for the model year of the "new" engine, and parts will need to be ordered for the model year of the "new" engine.

While the complete assemblies may be "swappable" what happens to the next poor schmuck who gets to work on this thing six months or three years from now-??
When he calls in the VIN to the parts people (either OE or aftermarket) he'll GET THE WRONG PARTS.
What happens when the vehicle gets sold to some unsuspecting victim 14 months from now-??

It'll "work" but it's NOT the SAME-!!

I'd be mad as a hatter if I had to spend a bunch of time sorting out which part and which procedure to get things fixed. I've done it many times and no one is happy at the end of it all. The customer ends up paying more because it's his vehicle and the shop/guy on the bench STILL didn't get paid for ALL their/his time so NO ONE WINS except the cheapskate who wanted the "swap" instead of a proper repair (because it was less "costly") (Less "costly" to WHOM-??)

Just because you "can" doesn't mean you "should".

Try and run THAT kind of scenario through warranty personnel and procedures and it'll get tossed real quick and rightly so. It just ain't right.

Would YOU (or any of us) want to NOT GET PAID for sorting the Frankenstein out-??

My mentor taught me to "FIX IT RIGHT OR DON'T Fxxx WITH IT"

[Witsend]

I say if it's Old and ain't Gold, just get the damn Turd back on the Road. No one is going to be ordering internal engine parts for it. I would paint on the radiator support ATTN 2011 Turd!90 dayWarrantee LOL

[maven]

While the complete assemblies may be "swappable" what happens to the next poor schmuck who gets to work on this thing six months or three years from now-??
When he calls in the VIN to the parts people (either OE or aftermarket) he'll GET THE WRONG PARTS.
What happens when the vehicle gets sold to some unsuspecting victim 14 months from now-??

It'll "work" but it's NOT the SAME-!!

I'd be mad as a hatter if I had to spend a bunch of time sorting out which part and which procedure to get things fixed. I've done it many times and no one is happy at the end of it all. The customer ends up paying more because it's his vehicle and the shop/guy on the bench STILL didn't get paid for ALL their/his time so NO ONE WINS except the cheapskate who wanted the "swap" instead of a proper repair (because it was less "costly") (Less "costly" to WHOM-??)

Just because you "can" doesn't mean you "should".

Try and run THAT kind of scenario through warranty personnel and procedures and it'll get tossed real quick and rightly so. It just ain't right.

Would YOU (or any of us) want to NOT GET PAID for sorting the Frankenstein out-??

My mentor taught me to "FIX IT RIGHT OR DON'T Fxxx WITH IT"

I understand what youre saying, but you need to realize this happens all the time. Even with new factory parts and/or at the dealer. If you were to order a new engine for a 2010 from Chevrolet it likely to come with the newer 2011+ style actuators in it anyway....If you change a 3.6L GM direct injected V6 in any early model year vehicle, youll get a new style engine that requires the use of different injectors rebuild kits and intake gaskets, the timing covers have been changed over the years and appear physically different and dont always use the same number or location of bolts as original, if youve got a 2007/8ish 3.9L V6 with cylinder deactivation that has been serviced for camshaft or lifters issues it no longer has cylinder deactivation....etc...etc....

Sometimes a salvage engine is the best option for a customer, and theres nothing wrong with that.

[Crusty]

I understand what youre saying, but you need to realize this happens all the time. Even with new factory parts and/or at the dealer. If you were to order a new engine for a 2010 from Chevrolet it likely to come with the newer 2011+ style actuators in it anyway....If you change a 3.6L GM direct injected V6 in any early model year vehicle, youll get a new style engine that requires the use of different injectors rebuild kits and intake gaskets, the timing covers have been changed over the years and appear physically different and dont always use the same number or location of bolts as original, if youve got a 2007/8ish 3.9L V6 with cylinder deactivation that has been serviced for camshaft or lifters issues it no longer has cylinder deactivation....etc...etc....

Sometimes a salvage engine is the best option for a customer, and theres nothing wrong with that.

Those kind of running changes have been normal since the 800's.
The difference being that a properly knowledgeable parts man will see the notations as to what MAY fit a particular vehicle according to VIN.

When the VIN is input they then know to ask which style or type of chain guide is currently in the vehicle.

When it's Frankensteined wrong parts will arrive. Then the fun begins.
Sure, a used component is applicable, as long as it isn't one of those "it'll do" but just barely. I've seen lots of those and some have arrived here before they even hit the road after an engine swap.
Swap it with the RIGHT one, not one "that'll do".

[Thomas Greene]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to start something.. I agree 100% with ya Crusty. Been at this a long time and pulled my hair out from someone else's incompetency several times.
However, customer is the boss here! He pays my bills. I can only suggest (which I did) a new engine. Bone yard engine $850 New engine $3500.. I did however stamp the valve cover as to what engine was installed. Yes with plastic covers and all, someone may get pissed off some day, and that I apologize for! But it is what it is!
By the way, fired engine up yesterday and purrs like a kitten!
Leaving here in about an hour to load up my horses and head for the final weekend of world chariot races.. Hope y'all have a great week and weekend!
Thom

[maven]

Those kind of running changes have been normal since the 800's.
The difference being that a properly knowledgeable parts man will see the notations as to what MAY fit a particular vehicle according to VIN.

When the VIN is input they then know to ask which style or type of chain guide is currently in the vehicle.

When it's Frankensteined wrong parts will arrive. Then the fun begins.
Sure, a used component is applicable, as long as it isn't one of those "it'll do" but just barely. I've seen lots of those and some have arrived here before they even hit the road after an engine swap.
Swap it with the RIGHT one, not one "that'll do".

Im not talking about running changes to a part. Im speaking to specific instances of the new/service part is different than the original part. There are several very common and specific instances that I know of right off the top of my head.

When replacing a 2008-2011 3.6L (LLT) Direct injected engine with a new dealer engine you will get a 2012 engine, and you have to use 2012 injector seals going forward when servicing this vehicle. This cant be seen until you have the intake off and have injector seals in your hands.

2007 and 2008 3.9L cylinder shutoff engines (LZ8/LZG) that have been serviced at a dealer for any camshaft or lifter related failures have had the cylinder deactivation functionality removed. When diagnosing a misfire or say valvetrain noise on this engine you would be led astray by the "malfunctioning" of the cylinder deactivation system.

Some 2007 6.2L V8 truck engines have all the cylinder deactivation hardware but dont have cylinder deactivation....

2011-2014 various GM cars have a 'two shot" relay for the trunk opener. Only vehicles that have been serviced at the dealer have this relay, meaning two different examples of the exact same car will have different trunk remote opening operation that isnt explained in a TSB or in the owners manual in vehicle. And servicing a two shot relay with an aftermarket replacement will change the functioning of the trunk release....

Etc....Etc....Etc...


A frankenstein to me is something that never existed, couldnt have occurred from the factory or during dealer service, not just using compatible but non original OEM parts.

I would consider the Cummins 5.9L F-250 that lives locally here a Frankenstein.
I wouldnt consider a 2010 Equinox with a 2011 engine one.

Opinions....they are great, eh? :lol:

[Witsend]

On the subject about direct injection fuel injector seals, I bought a special tool set over a year ago after i had a intake manifold off a 1.8T 2008 Passat and had to bring the rail to a VW dealer to have the teflon seals installed and properly sized before the fuel rail could be installed. Haven't had a need for the kit so far. Does this tool kit work for other makes besides VWs (figure at least Audi and Porsche)? The direct injection gasoline fuel injectors were Bosch if I recall.

http://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemid=39530005

[maven]

On the subject about direct injection fuel injector seals, I bought a special tool set over a year ago after i had a intake manifold off a 1.8T 2008 Passat and had to bring the rail to a VW dealer to have the teflon seals installed and properly sized before the fuel rail could be installed. Haven't had a need for the kit so far. Does this tool kit work for other makes besides VWs (figure at least Audi and Porsche)? The direct injection gasoline fuel injectors were Bosch if I recall.

http://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDet...temid=39530005

Not sure, thats a nice kit though. Looks very comprehensive. GM has a couple different fuel rail pullers for the gas engines, and I think its just two different teflon sizing kits, I know one is EN48266 its just 2 pieces. An installing guide/protector and a sizer.

[Crusty]

Im noc hangeups about running changes to a part. Im speaking to specific instances of the new/service part is different than the original part. There are several very common and specific instances that I know of right off the top of my head

Etc....Etc....Etc...

A frankenstein to me is something that never existed, couldnt have occurred from the factory or during dealer service, not just using compatible but non original OEM parts.

I would consider the Cummins 5.9L F-250 that lives locally here a Frankenstein.
I wouldnt consider a 2010 Equinox with a 2011 engine one.

Opinions....they are great, eh? :lol:

Parts substitutions and changeups are one thing

As you say something that never existed or could have occurred when in dealer service.

Lots of people think a Rochester Quadrant is a Quadrajet-!!
Newer.... some people think all TBI injectors are the same.
All 5.0 or 5.7 cylinder heads are the same

The list goes on and on and newer and newer.
Lots of vehicles have cost people a lot of money and still ended up being scrapped because of butchering something together that "KINDA" works.

I would just encourage someone to not hack something together with bubblegum and duct tape-!!!
I've had to fix my share of them after the deed was done-!!!!
Only saw a few at the dealers. Out in the aftermarket you'd just shake your head if you saw whst I've seen over the years.

[maven]

Parts substitutions and changeups are one thing

As you say something that never existed or could have occurred when in dealer service.

Lots of people think a Rochester Quadrant is a Quadrajet-!!
Newer.... some people think all TBI injectors are the same.
All 5.0 or 5.7 cylinder heads are the same

The list goes on and on and newer and newer.
Lots of vehicles have cost people a lot of money and still ended up being scrapped because of butchering something together that "KINDA" works.

I would just encourage someone to not hack something together with bubblegum and duct tape-!!!
I've had to fix my share of them after the deed was done-!!!!
Only saw a few at the dealers. Out in the aftermarket you'd just shake your head if you saw whst I've seen over the years.