SureTrack Users General Discussion

[greasybob]

If your shop performs alignments what is your policy regarding vehicles with modified suspension systems ? It's been my finding that with these lift kits you can always bring the toe to spec and most of the time camber but caster is another story. You usually run out of adjustment before it's within spec because the spindles (knuckles) get tipped. Or you would have to sacrifice camber to get caster (depending on suspension type).

[Crossland Auto]

In these cases, I always sacrifice caster. I can just about always make the split for the crowned roads, but the self centering is going to loose. I always show the customer the print out, explain that camber and toe is what is going to wear the tires. Caster is a drivability adjustment. That seems to be what everyone cares about with the lifts, "Tire wear". Especially with the younger generation running mud terrains because they look cool.

By the way, aftermarket lift = no guarantee......

X

[STURNER]

I lay it all out for them before any work is done. I explain that bigger wheels and or tires is tying one arm behind my back. Suspension kits is pretty much tying the other one. I will let them know that I will do my very best but they get no promises. I would rather the be mad for free up front than mad and out of pocket later.

[Dr.Jake]

hello

[Crusty]

In these cases, I always sacrifice caster. I can just about always make the split for the crowned roads, but the self centering is going to loose. I always show the customer the print out, explain that camber and toe is what is going to wear the tires. Caster is a drivability adjustment. That seems to be what everyone cares about with the lifts, "Tire wear". Especially with the younger generation running mud terrains because they look cool.

By the way, aftermarket lift = no guarantee......

X

I agree with everything you say here EXCEPT that "Caster is a drivability adjustment". Yes it has drivability effects but there is more to it than just returnability after cornering.

With the front wheels raked out forward the entire suspension system gets the IMPACT of road bumps and potholes being driven up through the suspension components in a straight line.
If the castor has the wheels raked to the back of the vehicle (negative castor) that impact force is at an angle that could be though of as hitting something at right angles (weaker )
I hope I explained that well enough.
SOME suspension systems are designed for a negative castor but not many, and those that I remember were smaller lighter cars from the 60's era.
Just another thought on castor to be considered.

[Crossland Auto]

Crusty, could not agree more. If someone were going to go that far in explination to a customer about the difference in ride between positive and negative caster, they are asking for a blank stare from the customer while wasting their own breath. With that said:

Here is a case in point. I have spent the last couple of weekends trying to make an '07 Silverado 1500 2wd with a couple of lifts (spindle, springs, aftermarket upper control arms) safe to drive for the daughter of a sister of the guy next door that does the big truck drivetrain.

Ya following me so far?

Came towed in after "Dad" had fixed a broken upper ball joint. This time, hub had failed while driving. After replacing hub, Caliper, and anchor plate. I checked everything out, both lower ball joints were coming apart, the Neoprene bushings in the upper control arms were almost non existent.
Since they are divorced, dad supplied parts, mom may pay labor.

Dad had custom made Delron bushings made, I guess he did not believe my measurements, had the o.d. made .050 larger. After a bit of time machining, got it ready for alignment.

[Crossland Auto]

On the drivers side, the only way I could get Camber into spec (which turned out to be .3), was to turn both adjusters to their max positions. That gave me a Caster spec of 2.1 degrees. (far from spec). On the passenger side, I was able to hit .1 Camber, 1.6 Caster.

I got my tire wear, a split for the crown of the roads. I am golden.

Then mom bought daughter 35" Mud Terrains.... CAN WE SAY RUB!!!!!

By the way, I have never seen any suspension so messed up that positive and negative Caster can be mixed up on any vehicle.... Wait..... (I spoke too soon) I have, a home made version of Detroit Speed suspension conversion on a '68 Camaro. LOL

[Crossland Auto]

Pictures did not post.

[Crusty]

Crusty, could not agree more. If someone were going to go that far in explination to a customer about the difference in ride between positive and negative caster, they are asking for a blank stare from the customer while wasting their own breath. With that said:

LOL, explaining to a customer WHO WILL LISTEN is easy-!! Arms in front, elbows bent, forearms straight up, hands open and palms facing each other. Flat hands can illustrate the toe. Positioning the elbows one at a time to show camber and castor and describing the effects of the positioning of the elbow only takes about 2 or 3 minutes at most.

Here is a case in point. I have spent the last couple of weekends trying to make an '07 Silverado 1500 2wd with a couple of lifts (spindle, springs, aftermarket upper control arms) safe to drive for the daughter of a sister of the guy next door that does the big truck drivetrain.

Ya following me so far?

Came towed in after "Dad" had fixed a broken upper ball joint. This time, hub had failed while driving. After replacing hub, Caliper, and anchor plate. I checked everything out, both lower ball joints were coming apart, the Neoprene bushings in the upper control arms were almost non existent.
Since they are divorced, dad supplied parts, mom may pay labor.

Dad had custom made Delron bushings made, I guess he did not believe my measurements, had the o.d. made .050 larger. After a bit of time machining, got it ready for alignment.

Oh boy. Sounds like two parents fighting for the daughters allegiance, spoiling her and she willingly "manipulating" them to get the "coolest truck in town". At some point we, the professionals, have to tell them "enough, stop it, you're putting your daughters life at risk along with everyone else on the public roadways, AND you're wasting money at the same time".

The impossible I can do right away..... Miracles take a little longer.

Butchering a vehicle with some kind of "kit" that happens to be for sale isn't very smart AFAIC. That picture of the broken hub shows that it is quite conceivable that the entire suspension system has been COMPROMISED and none of the factory designed and engineered components will stand the strain.
I wonder if that break left a stain on the front seat-!!
It should have-!! LOL

[Witsend]

Do that Elbow thing to portray a Violent Caster Shimmy

LOL, explaining to a customer WHO WILL LISTEN is easy-!! Arms in front, elbows bent, forearms straight up, hands open and palms facing each other. Flat hands can illustrate the toe. Positioning the elbows one at a time to show camber and castor and describing the effects of the positioning of the elbow only takes about 2 or 3 minutes at most.

... and I'll play The Chicken Dance Song.

[Tech_A]

Crack?

Is that a crack developing or am I seeing things?

[liljoe]

Saturday is a holiday...

Who here is going to celebrate Saturday with a circle? I know I will......

[Witsend]

Who here is going to celebrate Saturday with a circle? I know I will..

I'ld say you'ld have to do The Good Cathylic thing and eat fish with the wife on Friday, before you can eat steak and make crop circles on Saturday

[Crossland Auto]

crack

Tech A, you scared me. I have to say, GOOD EYE, turns out, just a shadow from the flash. The edge of some sort of reinforcement plate for the spring bucket to the frame.

At least the tire supplier was cool about swapping the mounted 35's for a set of 33's. No more tire rub, a lot safer for the teenaged driver.

X

[Dr.Jake]

What causes lean codes on 02,03 5.3 silverados? And buzzing sound at the fuel press regulator?